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Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

nytimes.com

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Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#231

Post by Mz »

My observation has been that drugs don't really fuck up people's lives. People with fucked up lives turn to drugs and then, when they are ready to get their act together, they also get off the drugs. Then blame the problems on the drug use.

I am pretty much a tea-totaller. I am also allergic to marijuana, so I have no desire to be around it. But I have known people in person and read articles and the like. One example that comes to mind: 16 year old boy's brother is gruesomely murdered, he becomes an addict or alcoholic and when he is 19 he decides to get clean and sober. So, he's had three years to process his grief and he is now a legal adult, not a helpless legal minor who can't do much about anything wrong in his life. Now, he wants to be sober and talks trash about what a bad person he was for using/drinking and blah blah blah.

My best guess: It is easier and/or more socially acceptable to blame drugs than to admit that life really shat on them, their parents are assholes, whatever. But, in most cases, it looks to me like they use for a reason and if that underlying reason gets better, then they will tend to stop using.

I am fond of the book "The truth about addiction and recovery" which basically takes this view.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#233

Post by msane »

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

In a world where all drugs are legal, do you think there should still be prescription medications?

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#234

Post by davidf18 »

psyc wrote: post #230
davidf18 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow. It is ok to downvote medical studies from leading medical journals because alcohol already harms infants? And I suppose people reason that marijuana use will not lead to any increase at all of neurologically harmed infants? Perhaps someone could explain why they want to adopt policy that will lead to an increase of neurologically harmed infants and stillbirths. Empathy is key. Try to imagine infants t…

Utilitarian outcome is not the only basis for policy, especially in a society that has individual liberty as a core value. If it was, we could have a much more draconian society than we do. We don't ban things everywhere we find a statistical increase in harm.

Yet, we also make a distinction where people can harm themselves but we pass laws that protect others from harms.

For example, be pass laws banning cigarette smoking in public places, in parks, etc.

We also have a drinking age of 21, and many/most states now consider driving with a blood alcohol level above 0.8 as drunk driving. These acts are to protect other drivers and pedestrians from being harmed by drunk driving.

It is not unreasonable to want to ensure that fetuses are protected too.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#235

Post by rjeli »

lettergram wrote: post #126
IsaacL wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also known three people who smoked marijuana regularly and developed serious life problems as a result, along with a larger number who didn't develop major problems but who definitely "stalled". I also knew many who smoked it regularly without major issues, so I'm not saying it inevitably causes problems, but I am 99.99% certain that if you already suffer problems with motivation or life direction, marijuana can…

To add to the antidotal evidence... Ive smoked a lot of weed for a long time, I finished college, have a job paying well above average, I work on projects / my startup, I have a wife, and am looking to start a family (at which point I'll stop smoking for a bit). Further, my startup is starting to make money and I'm up for promotion at work. Then to tie this in nicely which the argument that people with issues will ig…

     I think people who smoke weed (or tobacco for that matter) are more likely to get into the "drug culture" of partying, carnivals / festival, climbing, etc
Is climbing really associated with drug use?? I have never heard of such a connection. Would be very interested to hear more

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#236

Post by StanislavPetrov »

choko wrote: post #174
dietrichepp wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds a lot like World of Warcraft, the way you describe it. Maybe we should criminalize MMORPGs? That part is a bit of a bad joke, but I've known people who have lost chunks of their lives to WoW, and the criticisms you outline for cannabis seem to mirror my perception of WoW very closely—"addictive", "causes them to be extremely unmotivated", and "a lot of people end up really trapped by it". To be honest, when I…

Whoa there! I don't think the poster to which you responded said that marijuana should be criminalized, only that the risks are downplayed significantly by supporters of legalization. As a user myself, I tend to agree. It can be very easy to go overboard if you aren't careful. For many people, weed can completely sap motivation if abused. The exact risks are really unknown though, since research into marijuana has be…

Freedom is dangerous. In a free society, the government doesn't regulate the behavior of consenting adults behind closed doors, period (yes, I'm saying we don't live in a free society). In a free society an adult it free to choose to engage in behavior that is stupid, boorish, offensive, counterproductive, and idiotic. If that adult wants to eat 50 Big Macs, smoke marijuana, or snort Draino, it should be absolutely none of the business of the government. This would all be true if there were some way for the government to prevent "frowned upon" behavior without spending hundreds of billions of dollars a year to create a massive, heavily armed federalized police force that regularly seizes the money ($3.9 seized in 2014 alone - most without charges filed) and violates the rights of citizens. The fact that all the billions spent, the assets seized, the rights violated, and the lives ruined haven't done anything to reduce this "frowned upon" behavior at all makes the decision to disband the DEA an absolutely no-brainer to anyone with a shred of intelligence and impartiality. Unfortunately we have none of these people in government.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#237

Post by forgetsusername »

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

>lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything

How do you attribute that to marijuana smoking? Correlation isn't causation; perhaps they would have been apathetic over that time period, regardless.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#238

Post by dghughes »

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

In a way you can overdoes but it seems to depend on the person cases of cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome aka CHS are appearing more and more.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/pot-pains-why-marijuana-can-bec...

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#239

Post by thomyorkie »

youngButEager wrote: post #228
thomyorkie wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Pot smokers are T-R-O-U-B-L-E" There is an error in your reasoning process which has been pointed out several times now (not just by me). I encourage a bit of introspection.

No. No error. Pot smokers make bad decisions MUCH more frequently than sober non-users. I am in a position to observe that -- lots of non-users and a few users, at our properties It doesn't matter if 100,000 non-experienced people tell me my opinion (based on personal experience across 23+3 years) about pot smokers is wrong. I actually have THE EXPERIENCE. But, as I've said, and as I tell prospective tenants, it is n…

> "I am in a position to observe that -- lots of non-users and a few users, at our properties"

This is the crux of it. You simply cannot know for certain who the non-users are. I guarantee you over the course of your 23 years, there were tenants who you assumed fell into the non-users group but actually didn't.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#240

Post by jeroen »

rjeli wrote: post #235
lettergram wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to the antidotal evidence... Ive smoked a lot of weed for a long time, I finished college, have a job paying well above average, I work on projects / my startup, I have a wife, and am looking to start a family (at which point I'll stop smoking for a bit). Further, my startup is starting to make money and I'm up for promotion at work. Then to tie this in nicely which the argument that people with issues will ig…

I think people who smoke weed (or tobacco for that matter) are more likely to get into the "drug culture" of partying, carnivals / festival, climbing, etc Is climbing really associated with drug use?? I have never heard of such a connection. Would be very interested to hear more

I have seen casual weed consumption among outdoor climbers in some places in Europe. Nothing that I would call "drug culture". Maybe it's different in other places.
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