Live data from Hacker News

Coding Boot Camps Attract Tech Companies

wsj.com

11–20 of 53 posts

Re: Coding Boot Camps Attract Tech Companies

#11
> Flatiron, a for-profit school, has seized on a clear need in the economy that some academic experts say reveals a failing among traditional universities.

Teaching highly specialized skills currently in demand has not traditionally been the mission of universities. In professions like architecture and medicine there is an expectation that new graduates won't have much in the way of practical knowledge about current practices, and so apprenticeships are more or less built in to the transition from student to practitioner.

Is a disinterest in teaching current professional practice really a failing of universities?

It seems more likely that bootcamps are simply a way for software firms to outsource part of the apprenticeship process. Most of the people who go to good bootcamps already have strong university educations and would likely have been able to be hired into junior dev roles anyway without the bootcamp.

Re: Coding Boot Camps Attract Tech Companies

#12
When Apple Inc., for example, announced in 2014 a new programming language for its products, Swift, Flatiron adjusted its curriculum within days

I don't see how this is possible, who is teaching this course? How do you go from 0 to instructor-level expert in "days"?

Re: Coding Boot Camps Attract Tech Companies

#13
post #12

When Apple Inc., for example, announced in 2014 a new programming language for its products, Swift, Flatiron adjusted its curriculum within days I don't see how this is possible, who is teaching this course? How do you go from 0 to instructor-level expert in "days"?

You know already know the frameworks, a third of swift is ObjC with better and more concise syntax. And it's not like Swift didn't get inspiration from other languages. Even though the combination was novel, the single ingredients were usually from somewhere. (Don't take it as a jab at Swift, it's probably my fav language + environment for app development).

You might not be writing idiomatic Swift from the get go but no one is at that point.

Re: Coding Boot Camps Attract Tech Companies

#14
post #5
post #3

"Average starting salary: $74,447." So they are paying them less than they would a recent college grad by something like 25%? no wonder they love hiring people out of these things.

I think you have a somewhat distorted view of the average starting salary of a college graduate: http://www.naceweb.org/s11182015/starting-salary-class-2015....

Sure, but in the sentence right before that it talks about the companies hiring the graduates that are based in SF and NYC and these camps are put on in those cities so I'm assuming you don't go to these boot camps and then take a job in Kansas.

Re: Coding Boot Camps Attract Tech Companies

#17
post #14
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a somewhat distorted view of the average starting salary of a college graduate: http://www.naceweb.org/s11182015/starting-salary-class-2015....

Sure, but in the sentence right before that it talks about the companies hiring the graduates that are based in SF and NYC and these camps are put on in those cities so I'm assuming you don't go to these boot camps and then take a job in Kansas.

For what it's worth, when I started working in NYC in 2011 in a prominent company, I started at 65K, having graduated from a traditional college with a Computer Engineering degree.

Not saying it was a good salary, but not all college graduates start at the ludicrously high salary people keep seeing posted online.

Re: Coding Boot Camps Attract Tech Companies

#18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but in the sentence right before that it talks about the companies hiring the graduates that are based in SF and NYC and these camps are put on in those cities so I'm assuming you don't go to these boot camps and then take a job in Kansas.

For what it's worth, when I started working in NYC in 2011 in a prominent company, I started at 65K, having graduated from a traditional college with a Computer Engineering degree. Not saying it was a good salary, but not all college graduates start at the ludicrously high salary people keep seeing posted online.

2nd this. Grad degrees provide a substantial boost, but not everyone can afford the debt and opportunity costs associated with a masters. Sadly, most of those that can, are in a better financial situation (family) to begin with.

Re: Coding Boot Camps Attract Tech Companies

#19
A coding camp graduate can be considered with respect to a computer science graduate what a paralegal is to a lawyer, or what a nurse is to a doctor.

They can perform some procedures, but not all of them, and at some point there might be supervision.

Now to be fair, paralegal and nursing programs take much longer than 12 weeks, are very strict and are regulated occupations that require a license that you can actually lose under certain circumstances.

Their purpose is to provide extra productivity and cost efficiency, but at some point they might require supervision and some procedures might exceed the skills learned during their training.

Re: Coding Boot Camps Attract Tech Companies

#20
I used to work for a coding bootcamp (not Flatiron) and made good money with a month off in between each of the three classes I taught each year. I eventually left because it felt like I was complicit in selling a lie. I totally agree with the article. Students graduating from a bootcamp are definitely not "job ready" without additional training / mentorship. Three months is just not a lot of time to acquire all of the good instincts that you naturally learn over years of doing development. Also the number of junior developers coming out of these bootcamps, combined with graduates from traditional CS programs is way more than the Bureau of Labor statistics suggests that the job market can bear and I saw these effects in action. Each class I taught had a harder time finding jobs than the one before, despite being more qualified on average.

That's not to say bootcamps are not worth it for anyone. There are some really good ones out there that honestly want to help improve peoples lives. The catch is that the students that have the most success are not the ones who come in knowing nothing. The most successful students have spent months (if not years) of dedicated self study. The bootcamp acts as a way to fill in some gaps and provide confidence in the job hunt.

Post reply on HN