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Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

nytimes.com

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Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#221

Post by WalterBright »

poof131 wrote: post #82

The DEA needs to go bye bye, and be replaced by the DRA, Drug Rehabilitation Agency. While I respect the risks operational agents take against crime syndicates, the war on drugs is a disaster. Even the government’s own RAND corporation concluded enforcement is far worse than rehabilitation, with rehab being 7 times more effective than policing, 400 times more effective then border interdiction, and 800 times more eff…

It's not just drugs, quite a bit of government law and regulation is based on wishful thinking and determined denial of human nature.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#222

Post by erikpukinskis »

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

When someone become apathetic who doesn't smoke marijuana, do you notice those data points?

This a fallacy I see all the time... when someone makes an unusual choice and something bad happens, people blame the decision. If someone makes the typical choice, people blame the circumstances.

If someone has an open relationship and it breaks up, people blame the openness. When a monogamous relationship breaks up, no one ever blames monogamy.

If someone breaks their leg while rock climbing, people think climbing is dangerous. If someone breaks their leg while painting, it was just an accident.

When someone cooks some terrible vegan food, lots of people think "vegan food tastes bad". But if someone wrecks a piece of meat, no one ever thinks "meat tastes bad".

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#223

Post by jdhawk »

gaur wrote: post #146
poof131 wrote: post #82

The DEA needs to go bye bye, and be replaced by the DRA, Drug Rehabilitation Agency. While I respect the risks operational agents take against crime syndicates, the war on drugs is a disaster. Even the government’s own RAND corporation concluded enforcement is far worse than rehabilitation, with rehab being 7 times more effective than policing, 400 times more effective then border interdiction, and 800 times more eff…

> If the goal is for politicians to sound tough and maintain a never ending drug war so they can keep sounding tough, then it’s a success. Part of their goal is also to provide their cronies in the prison-industrial complex with a steady supply of victims.

And bolster the military industrial complex a bit more. It is a war, afterall.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#224

Post by erikpukinskis »

aianus wrote: post #202
55555 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend people read The Politics of Heroin and A Legacy of Ashes. Both great books. Basically, The US makes drugs illegal and then enforces embargoes against other countries so they comply. Drugs have a very inelastic demand so this doesn't actually stop people from using them, but it DOES make drugs an extremely profitable enterprise. Keeping drugs illegal has at least one massive 'benefit' -- if law enforcement…

I subscribe to a similar conspiracy theory on the war on drugs. I think the government keeps it around so that uneducated violent sociopaths have a way to earn big bucks without impacting regular citizens. Think about it -- if drugs were legalized, what would unskilled thugs do for cash? They're not going to get jobs... they're going to commit real crimes like robbery, extortion, sex trafficking. Illegal drugs are a…

Who are you talking about?

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#225

Post by aianus »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #224
aianus wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I subscribe to a similar conspiracy theory on the war on drugs. I think the government keeps it around so that uneducated violent sociopaths have a way to earn big bucks without impacting regular citizens. Think about it -- if drugs were legalized, what would unskilled thugs do for cash? They're not going to get jobs... they're going to commit real crimes like robbery, extortion, sex trafficking. Illegal drugs are a…

Who are you talking about?

The people who currently earn their living selling drugs.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#226

Post by [deleted] »

aianus wrote: post #202
55555 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend people read The Politics of Heroin and A Legacy of Ashes. Both great books. Basically, The US makes drugs illegal and then enforces embargoes against other countries so they comply. Drugs have a very inelastic demand so this doesn't actually stop people from using them, but it DOES make drugs an extremely profitable enterprise. Keeping drugs illegal has at least one massive 'benefit' -- if law enforcement…

I subscribe to a similar conspiracy theory on the war on drugs. I think the government keeps it around so that uneducated violent sociopaths have a way to earn big bucks without impacting regular citizens. Think about it -- if drugs were legalized, what would unskilled thugs do for cash? They're not going to get jobs... they're going to commit real crimes like robbery, extortion, sex trafficking. Illegal drugs are a…

[deleted]

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#227

Post by erikpukinskis »

aianus wrote: post #225
erikpukinskis wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are you talking about?

The people who currently earn their living selling drugs.

I'm not sure why, but your comment is completely incomprehensible to me. I have met a decent number of drug dealers and I just can't place the personality type you're referring to. Is this just your stereotype of what a drug dealer is like? I was hoping you could fill in some more context, I guess, because I can't even think of a question to ask you to get more information. And I can't even comprehend your theory well enough to ask for clarification, because I don't understand who you're referring to.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#228

Post by youngButEager »

thomyorkie wrote: post #214
youngButEager wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'DGAF' is not always evident in the short time we meet, interact with a new tenant. Unlike a job interview process (several stages of contact: phone, in person several times, etc.) it's not practical for landlords to spend that much time with each prospective tenant. The 18 tenants I've evicted in the past year and half -- they ALL slipped 'under the radar.' My "cues/indicators" list above is 100% NOT all inclusive.…

> "Pot smokers are T-R-O-U-B-L-E" There is an error in your reasoning process which has been pointed out several times now (not just by me). I encourage a bit of introspection.

No. No error.

Pot smokers make bad decisions MUCH more frequently than sober non-users.

I am in a position to observe that -- lots of non-users and a few users, at our properties

It doesn't matter if 100,000 non-experienced people tell me my opinion (based on personal experience across 23+3 years) about pot smokers is wrong.

I actually have THE EXPERIENCE.

But, as I've said, and as I tell prospective tenants, it is not for me to tell you how to behave. My job, if you are a fan of repeated intoxication, is to keep you out of my apartments. That's all I do.

And in the past year and a half, 18 people have slipped under the tenant screening radar -- and got evicted for smoking on the premises.

We go to so much trouble to help people realize "hey, these people are really serious about this 'no pot' rule, this place isn't for me"

18 people in a year and half. Despite the fact we TOLD them, UP FRONT, no pot smoking (or cigars or cigarettes) on the premises. Before we even take a deposit.

Think about that. 18 pre-warned-and-now-evicted pot smokers. THAT'S THE POT. That's the bad decision making.

And you don't see or experience that. So I understand it's hard to grok, these pot smokers.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#229

Post by ocdtrekkie »

youngButEager wrote: post #145

INSIGHT: Being in a position to observe the behavior of users -- MANY users -- over a period of time, and non-users in the same settings. Most of you probably don't have that experience. - Parents do. Ask parents "how did your kid change after commencing use of pot?" - Teachers do, if they know a student imbibes. These days teachers have a great chance to see the difference between regular students and those who smok…

> IF YOU SMOKE, you are the LAST person to know if your pot use has changed you, added some negatives to your behavior. "A doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient."

This is key. As someone who has previously been on various prescribed medications which alter brain chemistry, I can absolutely say that you can't tell how it affects you while you're on any kind of drug that alters how your brain chemistry works. You may notice later, things that you didn't do or didn't enjoy, while you were on medication that affected your brain chemistry. But you'll always feel like you're thinking "normally", because that's how your brain chemistry is operating at the time.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#230

Post by psyc »

davidf18 wrote: post #149
aianus wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace Marijuana with Alcohol in that comment and it's all still true. But Alcohol is not schedule 1.

I don't follow. It is ok to downvote medical studies from leading medical journals because alcohol already harms infants? And I suppose people reason that marijuana use will not lead to any increase at all of neurologically harmed infants? Perhaps someone could explain why they want to adopt policy that will lead to an increase of neurologically harmed infants and stillbirths. Empathy is key. Try to imagine infants t…

Utilitarian outcome is not the only basis for policy, especially in a society that has individual liberty as a core value. If it was, we could have a much more draconian society than we do. We don't ban things everywhere we find a statistical increase in harm.
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