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Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

nytimes.com

121–130 of 266 posts

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#121
post #56
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know both. I have family members who smoke routinely for basically their lives. You would never know, they don't let it interrupt their life. To them it is more like coming home and having a glass of wine and relaxing on the couch with a good book. I also know and lived with roommates for whom marijuana was a real problem. The kind of person who would smoke every day, even coming home on their lunch break and takin…

We seem to be ok with people dropping out and becoming monks, but somehow living a relaxed lifestyle is somehow a major problem. Is it ok for people not to be a cog in the machine that makes your lifestyle possible or not? Sure, I might be happier if my past self saved even more money, lived a vegan lifestyle, or learned to play an instrument. But, I don't think it's a problem that I have failed to optimize for makin…

Having known both drop-out monks and drop-out stoners, they're very different. Long-term meditators seemed to be very psychologically healthy, self-aware, cheerful, disciplined, etc whereas long-term stoners tended to be delusional, paranoid and irritable.

(Many people into meditation had at some point used drugs, but eventually decided they were at best a distraction and at worst actively harmful).

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#122
I am in the UK and have been smoking cannabis daily now for 12 years. Legal or not.... does it look like I care?? At the end of the day, I am a nice guy, I help people out, I have held down a 10 year happy relationship and do pretty well at my job. I also keep fit and "healthy".

I don't care if I die, so take that away from me, and literally there is no valid argument to stop me enjoying a smoke.

Fuck the Police.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#123
post #92

>The D.E.A. and the F.D.A. insist that there is not enough scientific evidence to justify removing marijuana from Schedule 1. This is a disingenuous argument; the government itself has made it impossible to do the kinds of trials and studies that could produce the evidence that would justify changing the drug’s classification. This can not be overstated. I recently discussed a prior client of mine on HN who is one of…

Is your client possibly the same person who was interviewed for Penn & Teller's "Bullshit" on the "War on Drugs" episode[1]? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQS910WVlKc

That's him. I don't generally mention him by name, but as you can tell he is an outspoken and public figure as it relates to both his disease and unique treatment. For example, I represented him in a corporate capacity totally unrelated to that aspect of his life, yet he took every opportunity to inform and educate me about his story.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#124
Stop treating Heroin like heroin. That's the very reason why we have so many opiate addicts. As a former opiate user who almost fell down the rabbit hole (unfortunately, my brother eventually did fall down that hole), by demonizing heroin, you set it apart from other opiates like Codiene, Vicodin, and Percocet/Oxycontin. It's not any different from those drugs. I found out the hard way. All of those drugs are opiates and if you were to snort heroin and if you were to snort Oxycontin, you would almost certainly prefer the oxycontin. It's a much cleaner, longer lasting high while the heroin high kinda blows. Taking it in pill form isn't any different. Heroin is only sorta useful when it's taken IV or smoked, but heating it up destroys the compounds which get you high so it's not a very good ingestion route.

Pure heroin is quite harmless by itself (provided you didn't take too much). People can live a full and complete life totally addicted heroin with probably less risks than even pot. The problem of heroin is never direct -- it kills/harms via overdose (misjudging a dose, or doing the same amount after your tolerance drops) or the most common "overdose" we hear of is when Fentanyl gets cut into your heroin (Yes, Fentanyl is way more potent than heroin and hospitals prescribe it all the time). The other ways people die is by mixing heroin with other stuff, namely xanax. You virtually never hear of someone just dying from heroin alone. And have you ever heard of someone getting lung cancer from their heroin?

The drug itself isn't like crack or meth where doing it for an extended period of time can permanently turn you crazy (Psychosis). Or kill you from exhaustion/sleep deprivation. People can take it for decades and show no obvious signs (functioning addict). The drug is always labeled "super hard" by the same people carrying around Percocets in their purse. But that's OK because they got it from a dentist/doctor. Percocet is oxycontin mixed with Acetaminophen and Oxy is almost as strong as heroin per mg. Demonizing heroin while you're taking vicodin or oxy is so hypocritical that there should be a new word invented for it, something that means "more than hypocritical".

Heroin's problem lies in that it really doesn't have a great medical application. What it does, other drugs now do literally (not figuratively) 1000x better. But heroin is incredibly cheap to make (relatively speaking) and provides a unique rush when taken IV. There are other drugs (like Demerol) which provide that same rush but hospitals instead inject it into your fatty tissue (ass) so it's slow to release (so you can't get the rush). So why don't drug kingpins make that stuff instead? Because those pharmaceuticals (like Vicodin, Demerol, and Fentanyl) require complex processes (many steps) and expensive labs to make well, and it's way more expensive than Heroin. Not just cost-wise but also time-wise. When you're out in some back-country in Afghanistan mixing your freshly dried Opium in a vat of Acetone to dissolve it, you're on the clock to get in and out with the product or the boss is going to be pissed.

I realize I'm starting to rant but that's because I myself always though "drugs are bad!" then I tried pot. Realized it wasn't that bad, safer than alcohol. That same "Well that's not so bad" happened to me with heroin. After snorting it I was actually disappointed and thought I was ripped off. I didn't realize it wasn't stronger than Oxycontin. I thought it was orders of magnitude stronger than these harmless little pills my dentist gave me when I got my wisdom teeth pulled. I was wrong. And that lack of understanding is what almost threw me down the rabbit hole.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#125
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please delete. I can't rebut the reply—due to the legal status of cannabis.

>A "better" ratio of THC:CBD Here in Florida I think CBD oils were recently legalized and I think a single strain of marijuana (with negligible THC and high CBD) had been permitted for epilepsy patients. To be honest I haven't followed to closely after the last medical marijuana bill didn't pass. Anyway, is the CBD/THC ratios interdependent? Meaning as one goes up, the others go down? Or are there some strains with s…

I just did a little research. It would seem the high THC/low CBD is caused by the farming technique:

"However, modern growing techniques have also affected these chemical levels. For example, illegal growers have turned to indoor marijuana farms to avoid detection. Growing cannabis locally in such farms also circumvents the need to import the drug, and guarantees a more reliable harvest. However, the 24-hour lighting used in these farms inadvertently reduces CBD levels in the plant."[0]

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/jan/17/cannabi...

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#126
post #116

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

I've also known three people who smoked marijuana regularly and developed serious life problems as a result, along with a larger number who didn't develop major problems but who definitely "stalled". I also knew many who smoked it regularly without major issues, so I'm not saying it inevitably causes problems, but I am 99.99% certain that if you already suffer problems with motivation or life direction, marijuana can…

To add to the antidotal evidence... Ive smoked a lot of weed for a long time, I finished college, have a job paying well above average, I work on projects / my startup, I have a wife, and am looking to start a family (at which point I'll stop smoking for a bit). Further, my startup is starting to make money and I'm up for promotion at work.

Then to tie this in nicely which the argument that people with issues will ignore them - I went through court during school for restraining orders, I worked a full-time job while in school, and started a small profitable business. All of that is insanely stressful and I would argue if weed would have caused issues, I would have had larger problems.

All that being said, I think people who smoke weed (or tobacco for that matter) are more likely to get into the "drug culture" of partying, carnivals / festival, climbing, etc. It's really no different than people who become alcoholics. It's probably a symptom of a larger issue when people abuse drugs and attempt to "opt-out" of society. That being said, perhaps some people want this, and it should be an option. I don't care one bit if people want to waste their life on drugs. I only care that I have to pay for them via tax dollars, so remove social welfare for them and I'm all for it!

I'd even expand my argument, and say any vice including videogames, cars, etc. Anything can get out of hand if people are trying to avoid a problem. Just like you can't blame a gun for murder, you can't blame a vice for a wasted life. At some point, if a person had choice, and knew what they were getting into it's their fault.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>anecdotal evidence of people smoking marijuana everyday for 10-20 years and remaining extremely productive. // What roles, in what areas, have they risen to in this time?

Top banker at major Investment bank on Wall street. From what i understand smoking marijuana there is like having a soda..in certain branches/areas anyway.

This is hard to believe, major banks drug test.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#128
post #112
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We seem to be ok with people dropping out and becoming monks, but somehow living a relaxed lifestyle is somehow a major problem. Is it ok for people not to be a cog in the machine that makes your lifestyle possible or not? Sure, I might be happier if my past self saved even more money, lived a vegan lifestyle, or learned to play an instrument. But, I don't think it's a problem that I have failed to optimize for makin…

I would rephrase be a cog in the machine to "contributing to society". If someone wants to live a hedonistic carefree life, more power to them. But this is often coupled with abusing the social safety net designed for people who are down on their luck and can't contribute enough to society due to no fault of their own.

Which is why many people support removing public safety nets (or reducing them). I feel like anyone who wants to opt out of society should be able to do so, but they also lose societal support

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#129
post #44
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I have anecdotal evidence of people smoking marijuana everyday for 10-20 years and remaining extremely productive. Oftentimes drug use is a symptom of a greater psychological problem/issue. Perhaps the underlying issues are causing the negative behaviors and the drugs are only enabling it.

I know both. I have family members who smoke routinely for basically their lives. You would never know, they don't let it interrupt their life. To them it is more like coming home and having a glass of wine and relaxing on the couch with a good book. I also know and lived with roommates for whom marijuana was a real problem. The kind of person who would smoke every day, even coming home on their lunch break and takin…

There is a huge confirmation bias. You only hear about the horror stories, while people who are perfectly fine are afraid to admit so much, because of social stigmas and prejudices. Hell most companies require a drug screening as a condition of employment. People who smoke pot aren't going to come out and mention it at the water cooler for fear of retribution.

I was talking with a co-worker about US laws in general and he mentioned something I'd never thought of. Many of the laws we pass, speed limits, alcohol tax, prohibition, .08 legal driving limit, etc are designed for the lowest common denominator. Meaning, we pass laws based on the worst case scenario. It seems like it's illegal to do just about anything these days.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#130
I like to listen to Catherine Austin Fitts who was the undersecretary of HUD in the George H. Bush administration. Catherine often says "follow the money."

Unfortunately there are a lot of vested interests, organizations that make a ton of money from the cruel Marijuana laws: private corporations running prisons, police unions/organizations, and I would argue the big pharmaceutical companies (because Marijuana is a good natural pain killer). The war of drugs is a high-profit business.

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