Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin • Hacker News Board

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#71

Post by vidarh » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 1:48 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #58

nicotinetemp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, nicotine is no more addictive than caffeine. I vaped large doses of nicotine daily for over a year then quit because I was bored of it. It's been well over a year since I last used any. Whole tobacco is supposedly much more addictive. Tobacco contains monoamine oxidase inhibitors which in animal models increase the addictive effects of nicotine: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16177026 https://w…

I think some people are more prone to nicotine addiction than others. I smoked moderately for about six months, while dating a smoker. Once we stopped dating, I dropped the habit completely. If I'm drunk and everyone around me is smoking, and someone offers me a cigarette, I'll take it and take some half-hearted puffs, and typically toss it half-smoked.

Smoking appears to be more addictive than nicotine by itself. Pure nicotine in low enough doses has a fairly low addiction potential, and is mostly benign. But smoke, and you get the whole combination of other cigarette content, social pressure and ritual.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#72

Post by tim333 » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 1:50 PM UTC

aaron695 wrote: post #4

Stop demonizing heroin. To be honest, not sure what is right here. Is it ok to demonise interracial marriage while trying to get the minority the right to vote? Does the end justify the means? But if you think heroin is a demon and marijuana(or alcohol) is ok you are sadly mistaken.

All major drugs should be treated individually depending on their effect and how they are used in the same way we treat coffee, booze and tobacco separately. Heroin like marijuana has medical uses - my cousin was given some as a treatment for angina - it's a very good pain killer and one of the safest strong pain killers under medical supervision. Heroin of course causes problems when used recreationally.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#73

Post by snarfy » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 1:55 PM UTC

forloop wrote: post #45

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

Please delete. I can't rebut the reply—due to the legal status of cannabis.

Now that it's recreational and all of the THC and CBD percentages are listed on the packages, I've noticed cannabis high in CBD is sticky, much more so than cannabis high in THC.

For the many years it was illegal and I smoked it anyway, sticky cannabis aka 'dank' was always preferred. I believe CBD cannabis is more popular than it seems.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#74

Post by will_brown » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 1:56 PM UTC

>The D.E.A. and the F.D.A. insist that there is not enough scientific evidence to justify removing marijuana from Schedule 1. This is a disingenuous argument; the government itself has made it impossible to do the kinds of trials and studies that could produce the evidence that would justify changing the drug’s classification.

This can not be overstated. I recently discussed a prior client of mine on HN who is one of the few patients who receive the federally authorized marijuana from University of Mississippi (at a dosage of 360 joints/month). My client has a rare bone disease and has been in the federal program for over 30 years, one of my clients biggest complaints is that while he wanted studies to be conducted regarding the use/effects of marijuana the Government has refused.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#75

Post by vidarh » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 1:57 PM UTC

tunap wrote: post #67

blahi wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once tried to make the argument that heroin addicts do not look like TV leads you to believe, on HN. It did not work out.

As history as proven time and time again, the crowd loves a good witch hunt. Demonizing, deriding X is an incredibly effective tool of governance.

It's also that most people don't meet "normal" people who admit to be heroin users, so they don't get a counter.

With cannabis, anti-cannabis messages trying to portray cannabis users as all a bunch of layabout half-criminal pot-heads won't work any more because so many people know productive, intelligent, hard working normal people who use cannabis and are fine admitting it.

I bought into that image of heroin users too, until I realised I'd worked with a heroin user for a long time without realising, and he didn't look like a wreck, and functioned well most of the time despite being a hardcore addict.

When I then started reading up on it, I finally realised that not only can heroin addicts be high functioning people the same way alcoholics can, that you can't see it on most of the time, but most heroin users never get addicted the same way most alcohol users never become alcoholics, and it became impossible to hold onto my previously very strongly anti-drug views.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#76

Post by sjwright » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

imaginenore wrote: post #39

pacala wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

addiction + adverse effects on one's brain/life. There are a lot of benign addictions, which we call habits. We should be a bit more careful in casually classifying marijuana as benign on grounds that is not as bad as heroin. Edit. "Classifying" in educational sense, not in legal sense.

By that logic sugar should be highly illegal. Obesity kills orders of magnitude more people than heroin.

Per gram (or per serve) of product, I very much doubt it.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#77

Post by contemporary2u » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC

The big question is why drugs are illegal at all?

Drugs are a multi trillion dollar business. 100's of billions of dollars turning the wheels of the shadow economy every day.

Who stands to lose all that money if drugs were legalized? Who is involved in drug business? think of all of the players in the chain..

We know examples of developed countries where drugs are legalized and everyone did not become a junkie over night, or next week, or next year.

Drug money fuels a lot of things in this world, entire countries are built and destroyed using drug money, new political systems are built and presidents elected using drug money. It is convenient "invisible" hand that makes a lot of things happen in this world.

Drug problem is not about me or you becoming a junkie. Its about money, a lot of money, its about economical and political power that comes with it.

The day when drugs are legalized the convenient way to make lots of money out of "thin air" all of the sudden would be gone...

Hearings on the CIA and Drug Trafficking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km0Z2XmzBDw

John Kerry committee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvFr5K8zJRA

Police Officer Mike Ruppert (dead now, shot in the head 2 years ago) Confronts CIA Director John Deutch on Drug Trafficking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT5MY3C86bk

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#78

Post by pmyjavec » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 2:00 PM UTC

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

Do you have any real evidence to back anything you've said up? Sorry, but you can't quantify 10 years behind, it's just purely subjective.

Just because you know people who are lazy and use cannabis, proves very little I'm afraid. Do they drink beer also?

Not attacking you, but it's comments and attitudes like this that help politicians justify silly things, such as, "The war on drugs". The war on drugs is one of the most destructive, wasteful, pathetic ideals of our time.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#79

Post by sandworm101 » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 2:01 PM UTC

The OP speaks of a lack of studies due to a lack of supply. That's incorrect. There are plenty of studies and plenty of research-grade marijuana out there. There is just very little American material. The plant has been studied in Canada and Europe with plenty of material available from a variety of producers.

Canadian government's list of sanctioned providers:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/marihuana/info/list-eng.php

Their trade association:

http://cann-can.ca/

The growing supply of research-grade material:

http://www.universityaffairs.ca/news/news-article/medical-ma...

So stop harping on about a lack of research. The fact that a medical substance hasn't been studies within the magic bounds of a particular country should be irrelevant to any reasonable person.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#80

Post by martinald » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 2:01 PM UTC

iRobbery wrote: post #49

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

mostly agree, but 10 years behind what? Your ideal, or socially accepted view of how a life should be lived? I wait for the day, drugs are unbanned, medicine cant be patented, religion is banned, and the world has one common global goal, space exploration! I'd stop smoking cannabis for that. ;-)

Behind where they want to be (not my opinion, theirs). They look round when they come out of the weed stupor and realise that everyone else is 10 years further ahead in anything.

I'm not just meaning careers - often they never go on vacation abroad/travelling (past maybe Amsterdam). They look around and see their friends who have been all over the world after university, when they've done really nothing.