Too Poor to Afford the Internet • Hacker News Board

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#51

Post by koolba » Fri, Aug 12, 2016, 9:42 PM UTC

> They’re there during the school year, too, even during the winter — it’s the only way they can complete their online math homework.

Why is there homework online? Has this been shown to be better in any way for children learning math or just a cop out by lazy teachers to be able to automatically grade the assignments?

I can't imagine learning math with anything besides a pencil and paper (yes even calculators are mostly bullshit).

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#52

Post by rayiner » Fri, Aug 12, 2016, 9:43 PM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #39

jawns wrote: post #10

Can I just say how much I love the way public libraries have navigated themselves into the digital age? They are, as this piece points out, very popular places to access computers and the Internet, and many libraries offer a wealth of digital content. I can check out and instantly download e-books and audiobooks and movies from my library. It's certainly conceivable that they might have transitioned less well. There…

More importantly, bookstores have to turn a profit. Libraries don't.

Your average bookstore makes like 5% profit (if they're not losing money). Barnes and Noble could become a non-profit tomorrow and prices would go down so little you wouldn't notice. It's not profit versus non-profit that means the difference between "affordable" and "unaffordable." It's the ability to use tax dollars to offer a service for a fraction of what it costs.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#53

Post by stinkytaco » Fri, Aug 12, 2016, 9:45 PM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #43

__jal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want it deregulated and opened up to very serious competition. I also want our government to build reliable infrastructure (fiber) as much as is possible. I'm not surprised that you feel torn. Those desires are in direct contradiction with each other. Even if you're referring to splitting infra from service, there will still be regulation. You'll also see law enforcement becoming very interested in the fact that…

I wish we could have more separation of government entities. Community internet could/should be owned by the community, separate from the government. It could be structured as a private company, where shares are only owned by people within the community and then they have voting rights. Still community owned, but very separate from the more general government. Interestingly this would also allow community members to…

This is how many municipal electrical utilities are operated. Essentially as independently run entities. It's actually worth pointing out that many government bodies are overseen by politically appointees (library boards, parking commissions, liquor control boards, etc.) creating a space in which civil servants are working with much more direct civilian oversight. As lampooned as this is in comedy (see Parks and Rec or Yes Minister), it's generally a fairly effective check against what you are speaking of. My library, for example, has a fairly robust law enforcement inquiry policy set by its board.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#54

Post by lake99 » Fri, Aug 12, 2016, 9:48 PM UTC

mankash666 wrote: post #45

lake99 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I understand why Russian-speakers dominate many gaming communities. I pay around 20$ for an 8mbps connection, with a monthly download limit of about 50GB. Now you know why there won't be Indians competing in global e-leagues for a long time to come.

Do you pay about 1500 INR and still cap out at 50GB a month? I'm sure you get unlimited access for around that

About 1200 INR, which I rounded in USD. To the best of my knowledge, only Hyderabad has unlimited options.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#55

Post by hnburnsy » Fri, Aug 12, 2016, 9:48 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #50

hnburnsy wrote: post #42

Most providers offer low income broadband which offers service for $9.95 per month with no installation/activation or modem rental fees. Cox even includes access to its Wi-Fi hotspot network.

Comcast charges $20 for its cheapest plan (10 Mbps), which increases to $50 after the first year. It's the only option on my area.

Comcast Internet Essentials

- 10 Mbps Internet service for just $9.95 a month + tax - No activation fees and no equipment rental fees - Option to purchase a computer for just $149.99 + tax - Access to free Internet training online, in print and in person - A wireless gateway, delivering in-home WiFi at no additional cost

https://customer.xfinity.com/help-and-support/internet/comca...

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#56

Post by clumsysmurf » Fri, Aug 12, 2016, 9:50 PM UTC

I relied on my public library for internet access for years ... luckily though, I had my own computer.

Do any libraries have some kind of persisted 'virtualized' environment that migrated between public-use machines?

For example, at the library I was at, you could not install software you needed - things were pretty locked down. And one day you may use machine #5, another day it might be machine #10.

Imagine you wanted to teach yourself programming. A few tools would need to be installed. I don't see how this would be possible in the library I was in (using public computers).

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#57

Post by mathrawka » Fri, Aug 12, 2016, 9:50 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #51

> They’re there during the school year, too, even during the winter — it’s the only way they can complete their online math homework. Why is there homework online? Has this been shown to be better in any way for children learning math or just a cop out by lazy teachers to be able to automatically grade the assignments? I can't imagine learning math with anything besides a pencil and paper (yes even calculators are mo…

It allows the teachers to utilize online services built for education, which allow other "features" that online grading does not do.

- It provides feedback on how long students are doing each section, so they can identify if students are spending too much time on homework.

- It makes it interactive, which for primary school children helps keep education fun. They can even receive awards (gold medals, virtual stickers in their collection, etc) to keep them motivated.

But yes, pencil and paper are used for these as you can see the problem and write the answer, but do the work on your own, as needed.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#58

Post by qaq » Fri, Aug 12, 2016, 9:51 PM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #48

drops wrote: post #13

Interesting. I live in a country with a minimum wage of $58 a month (Ukraine) and yet the internet is one of the few things that pretty much anyone can afford: high speed connections (50-100mbps) cost about $2-4; rarely more. Are american high prices the result of scummy pricing on the corporations' side or is it an actual infrastructural issue that prevents the ISPs from providing cheap connections to everyone?

1) it costs a great deal less in salary to pay construction workers to install aerial or buried fiber in ukraine. Or to aim point to point microwave. 2) A network engineeering position that might cost a company $115,000/year in the US could be filled for $35,000/year in Ukraine. 3) Eastern european ISPs are much more "Adventurous" in terms of the low cost network equipment they use for core infrastructure. $1500 Mikr…

Be it as it may the quality of service is way better then what I can get with Comcast at about 1/10th the price :)

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#59

Post by TheGRS » Fri, Aug 12, 2016, 9:51 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #51

> They’re there during the school year, too, even during the winter — it’s the only way they can complete their online math homework. Why is there homework online? Has this been shown to be better in any way for children learning math or just a cop out by lazy teachers to be able to automatically grade the assignments? I can't imagine learning math with anything besides a pencil and paper (yes even calculators are mo…

I can see the huge cost savings from doing it this way, you can print far smaller textbooks that aren't loaded with questions, you can grade assignments much more quickly and have one teacher do more subjects or classes.

I don't know if that's any better on an academic level as I personally loved puzzling out math problems on pen & paper (which I suppose you could still do in your notebook), but I definitely see the cost savings.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#60

Post by crazydoggers » Fri, Aug 12, 2016, 9:53 PM UTC

drops wrote: post #13

Interesting. I live in a country with a minimum wage of $58 a month (Ukraine) and yet the internet is one of the few things that pretty much anyone can afford: high speed connections (50-100mbps) cost about $2-4; rarely more. Are american high prices the result of scummy pricing on the corporations' side or is it an actual infrastructural issue that prevents the ISPs from providing cheap connections to everyone?

The minimum wage in US would be $1200 per month. So if the average price in the US is $55, that's about 4.5% of a monthly salary.

Given your quoted numbers, the price in Ukraine is actually higher at 5% of a monthly salary.

Of course the US doesn't have a monthly minimum wage (not sure how that works in Ukraine) so many people in the US might only have part time jobs paying the minimum hourly wage, hence they make considerably less than $1200 a month.