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Space Shuttle computer has 1MB of RAM

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Re: Space Shuttle computer has 1MB of RAM

#41
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Burj Dubai, like any other structure is full of bugs. The point of engineering is to make a system that is resilient to a certain level of faults. That's why the tower doesn't collapse if there is a 0.1 mm crack in one of the bolts.

It also depends on how you define a "bug". A car that crumples too much and injures the driver when hit at this angle or that angle within these speeds could be considered a bug. In which case, counting the number of knobs that fall off, plastic that cracks, and parts that wear out prematurely, not to mention discoveries of toxic fumes / paint / etc, cars do have thousands of bugs.

The door knob example is terrible. How about this: an office that is either too hot or cold? Would that qualify as a bug? I think it does, and it happens all the time in new buildings.

Re: Space Shuttle computer has 1MB of RAM

#43
post #23

I remember my Digital Circuits prof saying the Apollo Flight Computer was constructed out of thousands of NOR-gates. At the time I was struggling to comprehend how to construct a basic circuit, so I was wow'd (and still am). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_completeness nand is more likely.

I don't think that the wiki article you cite supports your claim -- it states that nand and nor are both functionally complete but does not (at the time of this writing) indicate why nand would be more likely.

Re: Space Shuttle computer has 1MB of RAM

#44
post #40
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a known limitation, not a "bug". That pretty strongly implies that all known strange-behavior is not a bug. Also, all known bugs are not bugs, as they can be known and worked around. If you had to shut down your computer during the year cross-over, would you consider it a bug? Or what if you couldn't go on your business trip because of the year cross-over. And a bug in the spec is still a bug. Oversights in sp…

If I commissioned a computer to be made that wasn't supposed to be able to span the new year then no I would not consider it a bug that it could not span the new year. Sure it would be great if it would do that (though only if I had asked that it would), but as long as it behaves exactly as expected then I'm happy. No astronauts die and my budget won't cut. Success. A similar parallel in consumer computing is switcha…

Which is why I specifically included the business trip part. They had to schedule around those dates, losing a week or more of possible launch times, because they couldn't handle a year+1 operation. Given how picky they are with launch windows, this could easily mean large delays, meaning large amounts of money.

Not a minor feature, methinks.

Re: Space Shuttle computer has 1MB of RAM

#46

Here is an article about developing the 'perfect' software that runs the shuttle: "They Write the Right Stuff" http://www.fastcompany.com/node/28121/print

I think the article skims over a little bit at the end the cost of developing software in this way. For the vast majority of non critical systems there really isn't much value in this methodology.

Re: Space Shuttle computer has 1MB of RAM

#47
post #44
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I commissioned a computer to be made that wasn't supposed to be able to span the new year then no I would not consider it a bug that it could not span the new year. Sure it would be great if it would do that (though only if I had asked that it would), but as long as it behaves exactly as expected then I'm happy. No astronauts die and my budget won't cut. Success. A similar parallel in consumer computing is switcha…

Which is why I specifically included the business trip part. They had to schedule around those dates, losing a week or more of possible launch times, because they couldn't handle a year+1 operation. Given how picky they are with launch windows, this could easily mean large delays, meaning large amounts of money. Not a minor feature, methinks.

I don't know why planning a launch several years in advance a week later means a huge cost. They never scheduled a flight and had to change it because of the limitation, it was built into the calendar. Not having shuttles in the air during New Years might actually save money--less overtime pay.

Re: Space Shuttle computer has 1MB of RAM

#48
post #9

And now it’s going to the junkyard. Together with the shuttles that never lived up to their aspirations. Sad, really.

Given budget constraints and the level of safety required in something like the shuttle I think they have lived up to realistic aspirations.

Re: Space Shuttle computer has 1MB of RAM

#49
post #29
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it required 380 engineers to build the Burj Dubai. The only difference is for most software projects it is acceptable to have "bugs" as customers will still pay for it, even if it's in a poor state of quality. But "bugs" in a 2,717 ft tower are unacceptable. It comes down to, in general the cost of a bug in most software is relatively low compared to other engineering disciplines. Of course if the software is cri…

> But "bugs" in a 2,717 ft tower are unacceptable. People have a tendency to overlook "bugs" in architecture because of the immutability of the medium. But once you start noticing that the HVAC is uneven on your floor, the hot water takes five minutes for ramp up in your office's break room and the conduit runs for networking are bizarre you start to understand that architects and builders run into design and impleme…

Having worked doing building renovations I can honestly say it's rather frequent that you look at how the building is laid out and how the wiring/water/gas was run and say "what the heck was this person thinking?" - and that's not even including the times I've seen things completely impractical or wholly illegal.

In my present house we cannot have the central air turned on in the downstairs toilet if we want heating to the smallest bedroom (the 'infant' room) upstairs. Similarly the basement air vent was so distant from the conduits that the main level essentially has a heated floor (hot air can be felt escaping through almost every gap in the basement ceiling except the air vent it's supposed to come out of. Similarly the plumbing is so unbalanced that the shower can essentially be turned off by a good configuration of tap turns and toilet flushes.

Architecture is a joke, and the 'engineers' who design them should really consider building a house themselves, because I've seen every crazy design from doors being hinged to trap people in the corner of a hallway (literally you'd have to step into the far corner to squeeze around the door to exit the bedroom), to lighting layouts that didn't illuminate the room, or switches completely impracticably placed.

You're entirely right, people overlook 'bugs' in architecture, although in my experience it's largely because of ignorance of what it being right is. How do you compare a poor plumbing design in your house? Do you run through your best friend's place screwing around with his sinks and toilets while he's in the shower?

It's easy to compare two software programs to find a less buggy option, however it's hard to compare two houses to find a less buggy option.

Re: Space Shuttle computer has 1MB of RAM

#50
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it required 380 engineers to build the Burj Dubai. The only difference is for most software projects it is acceptable to have "bugs" as customers will still pay for it, even if it's in a poor state of quality. But "bugs" in a 2,717 ft tower are unacceptable. It comes down to, in general the cost of a bug in most software is relatively low compared to other engineering disciplines. Of course if the software is cri…

The Burj Dubai, like any other structure is full of bugs. The point of engineering is to make a system that is resilient to a certain level of faults. That's why the tower doesn't collapse if there is a 0.1 mm crack in one of the bolts.

Tunnels in Boston or bridges in San Francisco, however...
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