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What Danes consider healthy children’s television

economist.com

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Re: What Danes consider healthy children’s television

#61

Post by trelltron »

aedron wrote: post #44

The most astute observation is that characters on Danish kids TV are often completely, unapologetically flawed. This makes them relatable to kids, and kids enjoy watching them in all their dysfunction. And I actually disagree with the premise that this contains no lessons or morals. Children are able to see clearly how ridiculous and ill-advised the behavior of these characters is, and so learn to recognize it in the…

I've seen a number of British comedians make similar statements.

American audiences want their comic lead to be the cool guy making witty remarks, British audiences want the lead to be the butt of the jokes.

Re: What Danes consider healthy children’s television

#62

Post by benologist »

tclancy wrote: post #14
skrebbel wrote: post #8

Kaj and Andreea is fantastic! I'm Dutch but my wife is Danish. She does her utmost best confronting our kids with Danish TV (we live in Holland), so I understand a bit of what the author is on about. I was initially surprised as well. Truth is, it _is_ entertaining! But most importantly, once you get past the absolutely amateuristic way things are shot (hey, the kids don't care, why should you?), there's a lot of dep…

I am old enough (40) with a daughter who is almost 3, to be a little horrified by kids' TV. It's not that there isn't a ton of "good" stuff for her, it's that there is only "good" stuff. There isn't anything not geared toward teaching her math, reading or morals. When I was a kid, that was PBS and a handful of other shows and the rest of it was people whacking the crap out of each other to make me bug my parents to b…

That sounds like my 4 year old, right down to the finger song she can sing along with in like 5 languages now lol. Those youtube videos of people with toys are nuts, some of them are like a modern form of story telling and really well made.

Some shows I like of hers:

- Miles from Tomorrowland, a family adventuring in space with bits of science and physics thrown in

- Lost in Oz, it's decades later and Dorothy's daughter is into making gadgets and stuff, ends up in Oz. There's only 1 episode now but it's about to be a whole series on Amazon

- Wishenpoof, another Amazon title , little girl can make wishes come true with magic but she's constantly discovering she doesn't need magic to solve problems

- Barbie Spy Squad, it's decent even though all the other Barbie stuff I've seen is pretty fucked-up.

Re: What Danes consider healthy children’s television

#63

Post by mdda »

erelde wrote: post #49
teddyh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not be aware, but those cartoons were originally made for adults , to be shown in cinemas before the main feature film.

imo, often the things made for adults are better suited for kids than the things designed specifically for kids (by misguided adults). Kids aren't dumb, they just lack refined thinking models adults develop as they grow up. Eg: I think we all have experienced reading again something we read young and loved and finding a lot more meaning in it. (I'd still avoid showing some things to them of course.)

As an early movie recommendation, I suggest WALL-E. We started with it at ~2ish, and every time we watch it together, there's more depth revealed (currently at 5.5years old).

At first, it's about a robot and another robot doing stuff. Then they're on a journey. Then the desire for friendship. And hospital. Then (gradually) the idea of different motivations comes in. Perhaps some ecology. Then conflict, etc.

All the while, my daughter is delightfully more interested in robots and space travel than standard 'pink princess' fare.

Of course, YMMV.

Re: What Danes consider healthy children’s television

#64

Post by goodJobWalrus »

> Ramasjang is entertainment, not a replacement for parents or school. Parents are expected to know when to switch it off (but just in case, the characters go to bed at 8.00pm, and are shown sleeping until the morning) rather than pretend that it is self-improvement.

yes, I grew up watching mainly old American cartoons (like Tom and Jerry), and I don't remember them being particularly "educational", and it was well understood that we are watching them for entertainment, and the last one was at 7:15 pm on our television.

Re: What Danes consider healthy children’s television

#65

Post by thanatropism »

tclancy wrote: post #14
skrebbel wrote: post #8

Kaj and Andreea is fantastic! I'm Dutch but my wife is Danish. She does her utmost best confronting our kids with Danish TV (we live in Holland), so I understand a bit of what the author is on about. I was initially surprised as well. Truth is, it _is_ entertaining! But most importantly, once you get past the absolutely amateuristic way things are shot (hey, the kids don't care, why should you?), there's a lot of dep…

I am old enough (40) with a daughter who is almost 3, to be a little horrified by kids' TV. It's not that there isn't a ton of "good" stuff for her, it's that there is only "good" stuff. There isn't anything not geared toward teaching her math, reading or morals. When I was a kid, that was PBS and a handful of other shows and the rest of it was people whacking the crap out of each other to make me bug my parents to b…

> we limit her daily screen time to no more than 24 hours.

Here's the thing, though. There's a tradeoff between setting limits and teaching children what's right and wrong; and teaching them how to decide for themselves what's what. This is why kids of a certain age often get cash allowances, for example.

Kids are going to grow up one day. They will watch porn, and they need to know what's what -- what's bizarre entertainment and what's intimate, whatever its kinky-ness level, sex. They will watch violent movies, and movies that depict amoral, despicable situations. And this is fine: we're always flirting with the edge of our morality and our knowledge, this is how we keep growing as humans. "You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth."

This why I have long decided not to have kids. I don't have the kind of generosity to host a little person that at first can't walk on his own, but is already his own person. I don't know how fathers do it. I often think my father should be disapointed that I didn't become a musician like him or some other kind of high-brow artist, but instead a "numbers person" as he puts it. But he isn't disappointed. And just I had been warned, when you're 10, dads know everything; when you're 20, they're total fools; when you're 30, they're even wiser than you realized when you were a kid.

My dad knows something mysterious about Being and Life itself I can only glimpse from watching soccer with him. Foolish as some of his life choices have been.

Congratulations on being a parent!

Re: What Danes consider healthy children’s television

#66

Post by Reason077 »

david-given wrote: post #58
tclancy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am old enough (40) with a daughter who is almost 3, to be a little horrified by kids' TV. It's not that there isn't a ton of "good" stuff for her, it's that there is only "good" stuff. There isn't anything not geared toward teaching her math, reading or morals. When I was a kid, that was PBS and a handful of other shows and the rest of it was people whacking the crap out of each other to make me bug my parents to b…

Go look up some old British children's television. It was made in an era when... um... let's just say that it wasn't focus grouped. Chorlton and the Wheelies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Ng7VMqet0 Noggin the Nog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bKAYH3Sl8s The Trapdoor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eEXyg1lsZc Bod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfFoj-gFP2M Bagpuss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9beAp3TG…

Bagpuss really is genius. Probably the finest children's TV show ever made in Britain. Certainly in a different league to the rest of this list!

Re: What Danes consider healthy children’s television

#67

Post by ttctciyf »

skrebbel wrote: post #8

Kaj and Andreea is fantastic! I'm Dutch but my wife is Danish. She does her utmost best confronting our kids with Danish TV (we live in Holland), so I understand a bit of what the author is on about. I was initially surprised as well. Truth is, it _is_ entertaining! But most importantly, once you get past the absolutely amateuristic way things are shot (hey, the kids don't care, why should you?), there's a lot of dep…

> I'm not convinced that kids learn lessons like these better when it's spelled out for them.

From another angle, showing events with consistent and guaranteed moral consequences could be seen as mis-educating viewers that if people misbehave then benign forces will appear on the scene, putting things to rights and dealing out appropriate punishments and rewards.

Sadly, in the real world, this is far from often the case.

Obviously, you don't want kids to grow up thinking "great, I'll be a bully and a thief, I'll get what I want and nothing will happen to me," but neither would I want them to grow up thinking "I'll just go along with whatever shit unpleasant people throw my way because something bad will happen to them before long without me having to do anything, and my innate goodness will be rewarded automatically."

Re: What Danes consider healthy children’s television

#68

Post by nsxwolf »

arethuza wrote: post #5

"Supreme Being is not only imaginary" I was immensely proud when my son at 4 years old decided to stand up in his pre-school class and point this out to everyone.

Can your 4 year old refute Aquinas? It's a little condescending to say he "pointed it out" to everyone, as though it's some trivial subject.

Re: What Danes consider healthy children’s television

#69

Post by athenot »

skrebbel wrote: post #8

Kaj and Andreea is fantastic! I'm Dutch but my wife is Danish. She does her utmost best confronting our kids with Danish TV (we live in Holland), so I understand a bit of what the author is on about. I was initially surprised as well. Truth is, it _is_ entertaining! But most importantly, once you get past the absolutely amateuristic way things are shot (hey, the kids don't care, why should you?), there's a lot of dep…

> I'm not convinced that kids learn lessons like these better when it's spelled out for them.

Exactly.

Yes there is a time to spell things out, but by and large, kids learn by emulation. That's why the cliché "do as I say, not what I do" fails.

And more generally, that applies to adults as well. Most of us pick up more knowledge and life lessons from those who live it, than from explicit teaching. Sure a dump of information is good here and there at various stages of the mastery process, but that's a minority in the journey.

Re: What Danes consider healthy children’s television

#70

Post by teekert »

clydethefrog wrote: post #35
skrebbel wrote: post #8

Kaj and Andreea is fantastic! I'm Dutch but my wife is Danish. She does her utmost best confronting our kids with Danish TV (we live in Holland), so I understand a bit of what the author is on about. I was initially surprised as well. Truth is, it _is_ entertaining! But most importantly, once you get past the absolutely amateuristic way things are shot (hey, the kids don't care, why should you?), there's a lot of dep…

It reminds me of the output of Dutch public broadcaster VPRO during the 90s and 00s. Looking back at fragments of series like Purno de Purno and Rembo en Rembo, it's remarkable how this was allowed to air. A state-funded Sunday morning programme full of references to sex [1] and other stuff people would find morally questionable to show to kids nowadays. But I don't remember it being bad for me as a kid, I thought it…

Haha, yes Purno de Purno was fun, never knew what the big Clit was until very much later of course. Don't think it damaged me at all. I think taboos damage kids. I think in the American system, where sex is a big taboo and you end up with 15 y/olds going for Netflix and chill where the girl was never told that sex is something to enjoy and how to enjoy it, she sees a lot of Nicky Minaj ("My Anaconda don't..."), and the boy is self educated by porn, is much sicker than such cartoons. I recently listened to a podcast on this topic [0]. Sex is not something to be ignored with children as it is such a big part of adult life.

[0] http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/03/29/47221130...

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