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Can Psychiatry Turn Itself Around?

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Can Psychiatry Turn Itself Around?

#41

Post by phren0logy »

heygiraffe wrote: post #35
phren0logy wrote: post #21

I'm a psychiatrist. It is always amazing to me that despite four years of medical school, six years of residency and fellowships, and four board certifications, the assumption is that I have no idea what I'm talking about and have evil motives. There are fair criticisms of psychiatry, there are bad psychiatrists, but mostly there are crappy generalizations. Good psychiatrists have an understanding of what medications…

Any chance you could answer some questions? I'll get to them after a couple of (relevant) anecdotes. I was diagnosed with depression by a psychologist. I got a referral to a psychiatrist, and I was told that the psychiatrist would probably want to do his own assessment of where I was at & what kind of therapy would best benefit me. Nope. It was, "You've got such & such diagnosis; let's try such & such drug. Bye!" Som…

1. These experiences are not the norm, but still much too common.

2. Psychiatrists might not recommend talk therapies for a number of reasons (even though they probably should). Many insurance plans don't cover it, and lots of people aren't interested and want a "quick fix" to the problem in the form of a pill. Finally, the education for licensed therapist varies WILDLY, and there are a lot of really bad ones. That can make it hard to recommend in some parts of the country where few/no good therapists are available.

Re: Can Psychiatry Turn Itself Around?

#42

Post by alleychnt »

warfangle wrote: post #26
alleychnt wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me a guy on psych meds who is doing great and I'll believe you.

o/ heya. I've been on psychiatrist-prescribed meds for a little over two years now. I've gotten a better job, my salary has increased by 52%, I live with less stress, I have a (mostly) tidy home, I am no longer dependent on alcohol, I care for a wonderful dog, I am cultivating healthy relationships and friendships, and I am more involved in my community. I've also been seeing a cognitive-behavioral therapist for abou…

and as soon as you go off the meds?

Re: Can Psychiatry Turn Itself Around?

#43

Post by Joof »

phren0logy wrote: post #21

I'm a psychiatrist. It is always amazing to me that despite four years of medical school, six years of residency and fellowships, and four board certifications, the assumption is that I have no idea what I'm talking about and have evil motives. There are fair criticisms of psychiatry, there are bad psychiatrists, but mostly there are crappy generalizations. Good psychiatrists have an understanding of what medications…

Everyone's different, but as a programmer, I'd like more explaination of my psychiatrist's thought process on why they choose particular diagnosis and the medications they use. And preferably a decent bit of pharmacology and statistics of expected outcomes (especially when I ask).

Obviously it's a complicated profession. The medication changes your brain and often only has moderate success. Sometimes the medications can put you into a bad mood (and who do we blame? Probably the doctor). Diagnosis are partially based on subjective information.

I was ruined myself by a psychiatrist that over prescribed benzos and later tried to use her authority to sell 'multilevel marketing' goods and services. It's hard to blindly trust someone based on their degree after that.

Re: Can Psychiatry Turn Itself Around?

#44

Post by vacri »

intopieces wrote: post #25
phren0logy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry this has been your experience, but please don't throw my entire profession under the bus because of it.

Your profession needs no help from marsrover to find itself under the wheels of a bus. Every other medical revolution -- such as the rise of antibiotics, the pioneering of complex surgeries, and the advancements in medical imaging -- have resulted in a net reduction of people suffering from the ailments those tools are involved in treating. Not so with psychiatry. The more drugs that are developed, the more illnesses…

Psychiatry is, by far, the most difficult medical specialty. The human mind is so complex that the diagnostic 'bible', the DSM, has two sections - one for mental illnesses, and one for all other medical conditions.

Re: Can Psychiatry Turn Itself Around?

#45

Post by vonmoltke »

intopieces wrote: post #25
phren0logy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry this has been your experience, but please don't throw my entire profession under the bus because of it.

Your profession needs no help from marsrover to find itself under the wheels of a bus. Every other medical revolution -- such as the rise of antibiotics, the pioneering of complex surgeries, and the advancements in medical imaging -- have resulted in a net reduction of people suffering from the ailments those tools are involved in treating. Not so with psychiatry. The more drugs that are developed, the more illnesses…

> You'll have to excuse the skepticism of some us who have seen loved ones suffer through debilitating, sometimes permanent side effects from drugs their psychiatrists prescribed.

What debilitating side effects are those? How does their frequency compare to side effects for non-psychiatric drugs and treatments?

Re: Can Psychiatry Turn Itself Around?

#46

Post by leesalminen »

phren0logy wrote: post #28
leesalminen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it amazing though that CBT wasn't thoroughly examined as an option prior to prescribing multiple prescription medications?

Sad but common. Also, I have had many patients go to therapists and get "CBT" that had nothing in the world to do with CBT as studied and researched.

Yup. I've had multiple negative interactions with psychiatrists and psychologists. There may very well be good ones, but IMO they've become overshadowed by the bad ones.

Re: Can Psychiatry Turn Itself Around?

#47

Post by haaen »

phren0logy wrote: post #21

I'm a psychiatrist. It is always amazing to me that despite four years of medical school, six years of residency and fellowships, and four board certifications, the assumption is that I have no idea what I'm talking about and have evil motives. There are fair criticisms of psychiatry, there are bad psychiatrists, but mostly there are crappy generalizations. Good psychiatrists have an understanding of what medications…

Theodore Dalrymple (a retired prison psychiater from England) wrote a book about how psychiatry undermines morality. It is called 'Admirable Evasions' (1). One of the things he notes: many people call themselves depressed nowadays. Few people call themselves unhappy.

(1) https://www.amazon.com/Admirable-Evasions-Psychology-Undermi...

Re: Can Psychiatry Turn Itself Around?

#48

Post by heygiraffe »

phren0logy wrote: post #41
heygiraffe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any chance you could answer some questions? I'll get to them after a couple of (relevant) anecdotes. I was diagnosed with depression by a psychologist. I got a referral to a psychiatrist, and I was told that the psychiatrist would probably want to do his own assessment of where I was at & what kind of therapy would best benefit me. Nope. It was, "You've got such & such diagnosis; let's try such & such drug. Bye!" Som…

1. These experiences are not the norm, but still much too common. 2. Psychiatrists might not recommend talk therapies for a number of reasons (even though they probably should). Many insurance plans don't cover it, and lots of people aren't interested and want a "quick fix" to the problem in the form of a pill. Finally, the education for licensed therapist varies WILDLY , and there are a lot of really bad ones. That…

Thanks for the reply.

> Finally, the education for licensed therapist varies WILDLY, and there are a lot of really bad ones.

I hear you there. I had some iffy experiences early on. But a few years ago I found a really good one. He retired, but recommended someone else to me, who also turned out to be really good. I'm seeing him these days.

Maybe what needs to happen is for the norm to be that psychiatrists who see the general public (so not people like you, perhaps) do so in the context of a joint practice that includes various counsellor/therapist types as well. The approach could be that each patient is a client of the practice, with the various specialists contributing their expertise as needed.

(Maybe that already happens a lot. I couldn't say.)

Re: Can Psychiatry Turn Itself Around?

#49

Post by phren0logy »

Joof wrote: post #43
phren0logy wrote: post #21

I'm a psychiatrist. It is always amazing to me that despite four years of medical school, six years of residency and fellowships, and four board certifications, the assumption is that I have no idea what I'm talking about and have evil motives. There are fair criticisms of psychiatry, there are bad psychiatrists, but mostly there are crappy generalizations. Good psychiatrists have an understanding of what medications…

Everyone's different, but as a programmer, I'd like more explaination of my psychiatrist's thought process on why they choose particular diagnosis and the medications they use. And preferably a decent bit of pharmacology and statistics of expected outcomes (especially when I ask). Obviously it's a complicated profession. The medication changes your brain and often only has moderate success. Sometimes the medications…

Yow. Hopefully you reported her to the licensing board?

Re: Can Psychiatry Turn Itself Around?

#50

Post by dsr_ »

nibs wrote: post #9
nwah1 wrote: post #3

We're all aware that most of the drugs that are common in the profession have serious side effects. I'm glad the author called for his colleagues to focus more on the whole body, since realistically lifestyle and nutritional changes can have as profound effects as drugs, with no side effects. I tend to think subclinical deficiencies in various nutrients can play a big role. Most people are already aware of the impora…

Zinc and Copper belong on that list too. Zinc: http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC3868572 Copper: http://www.naturalnews.com/047834_copper_toxicity_depression...

I consider Natural News to be as reliable a source as Rachel from Cardholder Services.

There might or might not be a medical use for copper, but that's not a place you should get information from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_News

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