We now use Kanban on our team, after using Scrum for a couple years. Pointing is a process to discover unexpected hurdles or uncover hidden knowledge from coworkers, and as a guideline. By not having sprints, you just focus on your current ticket, and not artificial deadlines or points. Tickets will be done when they are done, and managers don't have expectations of completeness that as disconnected from reality. We'…
I'm considering a similar approach with my team. Any specific resources or books or tips you found especially helpful?
Why I'm not a big fan of Scrum
381–387 of 387 posts
Re: Why I'm not a big fan of Scrum
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It presupposes that all work can be divided into such pieces. No, it states the reasonable conclusion that all valuable features can be broken down into such (because otherwise if it adds no value to the product). There are also Scrum tasks around Research, Tech Debt, etc that are perfectly fine to create and work on but they have an affect on your overall time to build new features and that's ok . Because it needs…
You italicized "valuable features" and I understand why, but I think the trouble spot is actually the word "all"; your parenthetical about adding no value merely begs the question. I'd argue that, indeed, some valuable features can be organically broken down into two-week user-facing deliverables, but certainly not all and probably not even most. There's nothing magical about being able to partition a deliverable int…
Yet to find any that can't. I've yet to hear of any either. Usually that's a problem with the people trying to break things down not being used to modeling things differently - not the process. It's pretty common.
I'd love to hear some examples tbh.
> There's nothing magical about being able to partition a deliverable into a sprint's time frame that, by such distinction alone, makes it valuable versus valueless.
Of course not! The point is not that the time-boxing makes it valuable, I hope I didn't imply that, it's that all features that have value should be specific enough to be able to be broken down. If something is too vague it's not a valuable feature because at that point is just pie in the sky spitballing. That's what requirements and grooming is for - to identify what needs to be broken down, expanded on, or specced out better by the Product Owner.
> It's like writing a novel and having two-week deliverables like "complete the arc of the Alice character", versus "write approximately 100 pages".
That would be awful Scrum process. Also the Product Owner is the Sprint Team in a novel but lets pretend they are two separate people for this: here's how that should work in a Scrum system...
- Story: "complete the arc of the Alice character"
- Feedback: Too vague. What IS the arc? What perspective should it be from? Lots of questions, needs to be broken down.
Next, after the product owner has worked out that we're going to hit these beats in a 3 act structure.
- Story: "complete Alice's arc for Act One, with exposition introducing her and the other characters, ending on the inciting incident for the main plot"
- Feedback: Better, but this is really 3 things - the introduction of Alice, the intro of the other characters, and the inciting incident. You should split those up.
Next, the PO has split this up into those three Stories and presents the first one...
- Story: "We need to introduce Alice so the audience can start to get to know her."
- Feedback: Great, this seems low complexity and simple. We have requirements for her backstory? Ok, great, lets work with that. Seems like a Complexity 2 Story.
Then, when Sprint Planning...
- Scrum Master (not PO): "Ok so we were planning on getting this Alice introduction done this sprint, we still ok with that?"
- Everyone: Yup!
- Scrum Master: Ok, lets break this down into tasks of things we want to cover then.."
And then that part of the story gets written. Obviously it's an odd metaphor, but that's kind of how many (not all, at all) professional authors break down a lot of their writing process anyhow. Some are more freeform of course, but many plan a lot too.
The point is - that just because you have a planning step doesn't remove the creative process, it helps you plan better for work. That's all.
Scrum doesn't magically change how you code or what you code, it's just a planning and change management tool that emphasizes incremental steps.
Re: Why I'm not a big fan of Scrum
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my view the only way to handle this is to make constant refactoring part of the work without telling management. If you ask for permission for refactoring you will almost always get a "No".
We tend to bundle that work up and include it in tickets with the full acknowledgement of the rest of the team. "Oh, since we're adding new email features, we'll need to clean up some of the old email code. That will add additional complexity to this task, so we will estimate it higher." It works, allows us to still track the impact on velocity, keeps everyone informed, and makes technical debt clear and trackable.
Re: Why I'm not a big fan of Scrum
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't like scrum myself, but let me try to defend it because I think the problem of most of the people who don't have a good experience with scrum is a misunderstanding of the underlying principles behind it. Let's just remember that Scrum is just a tool that is trying to replicate some practices of the toyota production system (TPS), and an important principle of the TPS is continuous improvement, and Scrum has th…
I think the problem of most of the people who don't have a good experience with scrum is a misunderstanding of the underlying principles behind it. Unfortunately this has become a cliché whenever someone criticizes scrum, Agile in general, etc.: it's never the fault of the idea/process, it's the fault of the manager/team for not understanding it properly or not doing it right. Even if these philosophies and processes…
Well, almost every time I see Scrum criticized the described process is not Scrum and merely cribs ideas from it without understand the purpose or how things inter-relate.
So it's a fair criticism.
Re: Why I'm not a big fan of Scrum
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the problem of most of the people who don't have a good experience with scrum is a misunderstanding of the underlying principles behind it. Unfortunately this has become a cliché whenever someone criticizes scrum, Agile in general, etc.: it's never the fault of the idea/process, it's the fault of the manager/team for not understanding it properly or not doing it right. Even if these philosophies and processes…
Agreed, that's why I specified I don't really like Scrum. Mainly because it's hard to actually implement without all the flaws if you don't try to understand the underlying principles. Unfortunately, Scrum books and coaches rarely go through these.
If you are implementing Scrum, I don't see how you do it without the Scrum Guide (which defines Scrum), which is both quite short and does, in fact, go through the underlying principles.
Re: Why I'm not a big fan of Scrum
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then you leadership is not doing it right. Cases should take days at most, more then that they should be broken up. The whole point of Kanban is to have everything visible and known. If your not looking at the Kanban board and taking action based things that look wrong whats the point?
> Then you leadership is not doing it right. Cases should take days at most, more then that they should be broken up. It's easy - and useless - to make this about people. The point is, this is a problem that we didn't have under Scrum, with the same people. > The whole point of Kanban is to have everything visible and known. If your not looking at the Kanban board and taking action based things that look wrong whats…
Re: Why I'm not a big fan of Scrum
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Then you leadership is not doing it right. Cases should take days at most, more then that they should be broken up. It's easy - and useless - to make this about people. The point is, this is a problem that we didn't have under Scrum, with the same people. > The whole point of Kanban is to have everything visible and known. If your not looking at the Kanban board and taking action based things that look wrong whats…
It's a problem under scrum as well. Just because the sprint is ending doesn't mean the case will finish. They just get dragged into the next sprint