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Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

wsj.com

451–460 of 462 posts

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#451
post #438

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John uses Deck[0] for Daring Fireball 0: http://decknetwork.net/

Didn't realise there were also adverts on the site. I was more talking about the feed sponsorship http://daringfireball.net/feeds/sponsors/

Deck is the only decent ad network I'm aware of, so I keep them unblocked. The fact that you haven't noticed he has ads on the site speaks enough.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#452
post #451
post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't realise there were also adverts on the site. I was more talking about the feed sponsorship http://daringfireball.net/feeds/sponsors/

Deck is the only decent ad network I'm aware of, so I keep them unblocked. The fact that you haven't noticed he has ads on the site speaks enough.

I'm not a mac user so I only ever visit the site when I double check he's still doing the sponsored feed thing before using the site as an example of non-ad income.

Unfortunately however I didn't notice it as uBlock Origin had blocked it.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#453
post #402

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Re-reading your comment, it strikes me as extremely anti-capitalistic. > Those behavior changes are intended to make you give the buyer more money than they paid. That is literally the goal of every merchant everywhere. They need to sell stuff for more than they paid, otherwise they don't make money. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with this. They aren't forcing you to buy things, their buyers think that what th…

While they're welcome to improve their odds in our imperfect-information game, we should also be allowed to play in our interest by disallowing them information. This is not about the total gain of both sides: Almost every transaction is positive sum. However; why should I simply accept the 90/10 distribution of the excess in their favor when I can aim for a favorable distribution for myself too?

Blocking Facebook ads on Facebook isn't denying them any information at all. As I already said in another comment, Facebook already has all this information. All you're doing by blocking their ads is refusing to see the ad, you're not protecting your privacy at all.

And I'm also confused by your talk about favorable distribution. Isn't seeing ads relevant to your interests better than seeing ads unrelated to your interests? The problem with targeted tracking isn't that it's targeted, it's that it relies on information whose collection is a privacy violation. But when we're talking about a company that you've already voluntarily given massive amounts of behavioral data to, then you've voluntarily given up your privacy so there's no violation going on.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re-reading your comment, it strikes me as extremely anti-capitalistic. > Those behavior changes are intended to make you give the buyer more money than they paid. That is literally the goal of every merchant everywhere. They need to sell stuff for more than they paid, otherwise they don't make money. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with this. They aren't forcing you to buy things, their buyers think that what th…

An ad that's relevant to your interests is fine, but that's the best case scenario. How many people's lives were improved by clicking on "one weird trick" ads? Those ads sucked money out of people's pockets for no reason. Running experiments to find out the most effective ways to get people to hand over their money is a valid business practice, but that strategy in no way depends on the product adding value to your l…

"One weird trick" ads aren't targeted advertising, they're advertising based on psychological tricks. It's a whole different ballgame. Targeted advertising is based around "if we show ads relevant to the user's interests, the user is more likely to click them and buy stuff", which is a win all around. Ads based on psychological tricks is "can we trick the user into doing something that's harmful to them but beneficial to us?", which is of course not good for users. Conflating the two advertising techniques doesn't serve any purpose at all.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#455
post #452
post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deck is the only decent ad network I'm aware of, so I keep them unblocked. The fact that you haven't noticed he has ads on the site speaks enough.

I'm not a mac user so I only ever visit the site when I double check he's still doing the sponsored feed thing before using the site as an example of non-ad income. Unfortunately however I didn't notice it as uBlock Origin had blocked it.

I find his podcast relaxing (well, most of the time) to listen to even though I'm not a Mac user either. I think he mentioned Deck a couple of times, so I turned uBlock off to see, and hey, they really are reasonable and tasteful, so I left it open for them. They're not getting almost anything from me since I very rarely visit sites in their network, but I leave them on on principle. I don't mind ads, I mind being digitally and visually raped.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#456

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Are you against businesses being able to set their prices? They're asking you to pay the market price. If you're not fine with it, doing some unilateral haggling isn't exactly how exchanges work, just don't use their product. Using Facebook is not a right. The fact of the matter is, most people waxing poetic here about ads infringing on their rights, will still use Facebook when their adblockers don't work. They are…

I am against business trying to make me agree the price is fair. And the price of having ads displayed on my computer is too high. Ads are like a donation box, not like a price tag. Am I being forced to donate?

But ads isn't real donation, no actual money is handled from customer directly to the website. Instead, advertiser pays for it.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got it exactly backwards. The service is free, ergo you are the product, ergo Facebook's problems are your problems. You have three choices: 1. Stop using Facebook 2. Pay Facebook to remove ads 3. Look at ads I've opted for option 1, though I'll happily revisit this choice if Facebook (A) finds a way to make money without serving ads and without requiring me to pay out-of-pocket (unlikely) or (B) Facebook star…

Facebook's problems, which are my problems, are solved by opting for choice #4: use an ad-blocker.

Now this seems going to end very shortly

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If FB tries this, the awful performance of their site will start putting a drag on their business. But also, adblockers will keep up. If they have to use canned deep-learning neural nets to catch and crush advertising based on how it looks rendered, they will.

I love the human condition. Managers struggle to motivate for simple coding tasks, but ads? We'll be damned if they intrude our lives.

That's quite optimistic when you think about it. Most simple coding tasks are pure drudgery with no consequence to positive human values (other than “I have to do this to not starve”). Defeating most online advertising, on the other hand, is a noble community service to your fellow humans.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#459
post #179
post #157

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No, it's more like those terrible flyers you get in the mail and shoved under your door, except you have to pay the postage on them. Don't suck up my bandwidth on your crappy ads.

Don't suck up my bandwidth on your crappy attitude. You know facebook is ad supported. If you don't want to look at ads, why do you keep going there?

It's a voluntary commercial relationship between me (or any other patron of Facebook) and Facebook, and none of your business. Neither I nor Facebook need to justify any aspect of said relationship to you or any third party as long as they are legal, and even if any aspects were illegal it's still none of your business. I am more than welcome at Facebook without ever looking or seeing a single ad they're showing, and I'm pretty sure Facebook would resent your attempt at driving their customers away.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's sometimes hard to reconcile blocking ad-blocker-blockers ethically There is nothing unethical about it. If you want to be paid for your content, charge me for it and let me decide, voluntarily, to pay and receive it, or not. This argument comes up every time there's discussion about ad-blockers: if your writing, music, poetry, punditry or photography is good, people will pay you for it. You don't "deserve"…

So, if they offered a PayPal button, and I decided I didn't want to pay via PayPal, would it be okay to not pay in that case? By putting up the blocker blocker, the site has clearly indicated how you can compensate them for the content, and the only ethical way I can think of around it would be to not consume it.

For crying out loud, what is wrong with people these days, are moral compasses so wacked out by constant corporate brain washing that people don't see there is simply no issue here. None at all. Not even from Facebook's point of view. If Facebook didn't want me to use their service without me seeing their ads, they WOULDN'T LET ME use it. It is that simple. No one is forcing them to let me in. Unlike a lot of their users who are in a real sense forced by their social connections to use it.

In fact it's hilarious how “anti-blocking” people here think they're somehow philosophically and ethically upholding Facebook's part of the deal–by driving people away from Facebook. It's the exact opposite of what FB wants and needs!

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