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Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

greatergood.berkeley.edu

31–40 of 160 posts

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#31

That it were so simple... There is utility in people pleasing that does not end with self-satisfaction. There are costs, sometimes immediate, to conveying your thoughts and feelings directly. Examples from the workplace: Your colleague is a bit chatty and annoying, so the last thing you want to do is start a conversation about how bad your weekend was. It takes more mental energy to deal with them than not, so smile…

I took the article to be about the more extreme side of people-pleasing. It's one thing to do this as a one-off. Or with people you have to interact with in limited/confined contexts (your boss). But it's another to extend it to your entire life.

Have you ever met the person that, as soon as you say you went skiing once, starts saying how much they love skiing? Then later you see them do the same thing, but this time it's about traveling, with someone else. And later, you invite them to your ski trip (could be months or years), and they say, "I don't like skiing."? They were gushing about it when you met, but it was a complete lie. They may have even repeated it a few more times, but one day they forgot.

That's the extreme people-pleaser. They're never honest with other people, and consequently none of their relationships are real. They're all predicated on falsehoods (what they like, what they don't like, what they're interested in, etc.). So every time they go out they have to remember what lies they told this group, and oh shit now two groups are meeting and they have two conflicting lies.

What you're talking about is not this. False bravado or confidence is sometimes what you have to do to make it through. But make it a perpetual thing, in all situations, it either becomes true, or it wears you out.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#32
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Convincing people to buy stuff they don't need is very common road to wealth.

Give them what they want, not what they need. But many people would have a problem with the above statement. We want to give them what they need. So envelop what they need with what they want. Just like a Trojan horse, once your product is bought/used, they will eventually recognize the benefits of fulfilling their serious need.

Wants are flexible. Convincing someone they want something is often the first step in selling it.

Infomercials are kind of the penultimate version of this. The product is almost meaningless compared to the ability to sell it. It's not a towel it's a Shamwow!

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#33
The trick, of course, is being authentically interested in others. By all means don't be full of shit; don't suck up; live your truth. But man, being an authentic misanthrope (like being an authentic alcoholic or an authentic anything else negative) does not lead to the best possible results.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#34

Pleasing people most definitely pays. That is how the world works; you give people what they want, and you get paid. Supply and demand. Preachers of self-reliance seem to confuse "not letting other people affect you" and "not caring about other people". Self-reliance and people-pleasing are two separate axes on a Cartesian plane. You can be both self-reliant and people-pleasing. Being self-reliant, but not people-ple…

The author defines people pleasing: > People pleasing, in my extensive personal experience, is a process of guessing what other people want, or what will make them think favorably of us, and then acting accordingly. People pleasing isn't caring about other people. It's being selfish and manipulative in interactions with other people (often without realizing it). Quite the opposite.

Okay. Let's take an example from the article.

Be transparent, honest, and authentic. Do not ever waiver from this; white lies and false smiles quickly snowball into a life lived out of alignment.

Let's say John is this guy who is "transparent, honest, and authentic, and never waivering."

And say Jack, John's friend, is addicted to playing Overwatch.

John comes by and says, "Jack, you shouldn't play Overwatch. You are wasting your time and energy."

Jack responds, "I know, but just this one match."

John comes back a week later and says, "Jack, I am really fucking frustrated you are still playing that shitty game. I want you to quit right this fucking moment." The article advised to never hide your emotions, so I am following that mantra.

How is Jack going to feel after that? Is he going to stop playing video games? Have parents yelling stopped children from playing Minecraft?

No. Why? The world really isn't that simple. Just saying "Be honest all the time" is the worst advice you can give. The principle is nice and impressive (because you always keep it!) but in reality, John is either a loner or a hypocrite.

Consider Steve, one who wields both self-reliance and people-pleasing, visiting Jack who is still addicted to Overwatch. Steve knows Overwatch is killing Jack's life, and deeply concerned for him. But he does the not lazy thing and waits. Instead of admonishing Jack, Steve becomes interested in Jack. Steve asks Jack how this game works, which hero he is playing, etc.

Then Jack opens up to Steve, which, in due time, can allow Steve to change Jack's mind.

If you want to have the feeling that you changed people's minds, be honest all the time. But if you actually want to change people's minds, then don't be honest all the time. Utilize white lies.

In that sense, people who are always honest are incredibly selfish.

In the quotation far above, I would just add two more words. To myself. Be transparent, honest, and authentic to yourself.

Being honest to others always sounds cool, but is in reality excruciating lazy. So lazy that I wouldn't want a friend like that, ever. I want a friend who is more wise and less automatic about his choice between truths and lies.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#35
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't understand how to employ false smiles as needed, you won't get very far in life. How do we measure how far we've come in life? Relative to what is this distance measured?

Neurotypical people often err in the direction of overvaluing social status (presumably because in the ancestral environment, it made a large contribution to evolutionary fitness in a way that it does not today). If you find yourself smiling and nodding at the above, however, bear this in mind also: we geeks often err in the direction of undervaluing social status . If you haven't acquired basic skills in areas like…

Given the vibes in this thread, this is an appropriate comment.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author defines people pleasing: > People pleasing, in my extensive personal experience, is a process of guessing what other people want, or what will make them think favorably of us, and then acting accordingly. People pleasing isn't caring about other people. It's being selfish and manipulative in interactions with other people (often without realizing it). Quite the opposite.

Okay. Let's take an example from the article. Be transparent, honest, and authentic. Do not ever waiver from this; white lies and false smiles quickly snowball into a life lived out of alignment. Let's say John is this guy who is "transparent, honest, and authentic, and never waivering." And say Jack, John's friend, is addicted to playing Overwatch. John comes by and says, "Jack, you shouldn't play Overwatch. You are…

I'd take someone being completely honest with me 100% of time over someone who thinks one thing of me and tells me something else. The thing is, people act based on their beliefs the vast majority of the time. So to borrow your example, say the friend doesn't complain about his buddy playing Overwatch all the time. Do you think that he'll just wait around to see if he'll stop playing or do you think he'll start to ignore his friend and go find other friends whom he shares the same interests with? Without honesty, the friend playing overwatch too much will have no external cues that his behavior is damaging his friendships.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#37

Pleasing people most definitely pays. That is how the world works; you give people what they want, and you get paid. Supply and demand. Preachers of self-reliance seem to confuse "not letting other people affect you" and "not caring about other people". Self-reliance and people-pleasing are two separate axes on a Cartesian plane. You can be both self-reliant and people-pleasing. Being self-reliant, but not people-ple…

The author defines people pleasing: > People pleasing, in my extensive personal experience, is a process of guessing what other people want, or what will make them think favorably of us, and then acting accordingly. People pleasing isn't caring about other people. It's being selfish and manipulative in interactions with other people (often without realizing it). Quite the opposite.

You can reduce any action to being selfish and manipulative to some end. This doesn't mean it's a useful thing to point out.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#38

Pleasing people most definitely pays. That is how the world works; you give people what they want, and you get paid. Supply and demand. Preachers of self-reliance seem to confuse "not letting other people affect you" and "not caring about other people". Self-reliance and people-pleasing are two separate axes on a Cartesian plane. You can be both self-reliant and people-pleasing. Being self-reliant, but not people-ple…

I had a mentor once jokingly tell me: "If you learn how to swim, you can burn all the bridges you want."

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#39
post #17

Pleasing people most definitely pays. That is how the world works; you give people what they want, and you get paid. Supply and demand. Preachers of self-reliance seem to confuse "not letting other people affect you" and "not caring about other people". Self-reliance and people-pleasing are two separate axes on a Cartesian plane. You can be both self-reliant and people-pleasing. Being self-reliant, but not people-ple…

Convincing people to buy stuff they don't need is very common road to wealth.

That's what Sales is about

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author defines people pleasing: > People pleasing, in my extensive personal experience, is a process of guessing what other people want, or what will make them think favorably of us, and then acting accordingly. People pleasing isn't caring about other people. It's being selfish and manipulative in interactions with other people (often without realizing it). Quite the opposite.

"selfish and manipulative in interactions with other people" aka reciprocal altruism. As I've aged, I've embraced transactional relationships. My metaphor is "playing catch". Toss the ball, hope your partner tosses it back. Repeat. The goal is to keep the game going. Some one doesn't throw the ball back, oh well, move on to next partner. Works remarkably well for children, lovers, coworkers, grocery store checkers, a…

...move on to next partner. Works remarkably well for children

I'm curious how you actually follow through on that with children. It's hard to move on from them (without inflicting lifetime psychological trauma, anyway).

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