“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” • Hacker News Board

Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”

#211

Post by yostrovs » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 12:05 AM UTC

00098345 wrote: post #86

yostrovs wrote: post #81

I want to inspect the blueprints of every building I walk into and know the sourcing and composition of all the structural components as well. For my life depends on these things to be true and properly constructed.

Not necessary because this is realised to a certain extent through safety standards. Certified earthquake proof. Done. Now, in this case, FDA approval should include software standards that prevent this scenario. Done*.

Earthquake certifications are just like other certifications, in that most of the process is not actually reviewed by any government agency. They check blueprints, sign off on the process, but they don't actually make sure that the ibeams are connected correctly and that the angles are just right. Done.

Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”

#212

Post by flukus » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 12:27 AM UTC

TickleSteve wrote: post #116

flukus wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Rules and regulations do very little to improve code quality and security, imho. In fact, I'd say the restrict them. Adding a tonne of paperwork is a great way to prevent people from "noticing" problems.

When the paperwork is describing the system design from high level down to low-level to sufficient detail that an external auditor can use it to examine the source then no, that is not true. The security/safety processes (as applicable) are examined at every level from system-design all the way down to implementation. Its not perfect, but its best practice we have for secure/safe product development.

If the paperwork was that sufficient then you could compile they paperwork.

Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”

#213

Post by type0 » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 3:51 AM UTC

kelson wrote: post #195

TickleSteve wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

absolutely... given everything else is equal... adding obscurity is a positive.

The flaw may be assuming everything else can be equal in the real world. Obscuring the algorithm has downstream consequences that may/will reduce overall security. For example, hiding the algorithm from whitehats may prevent/discourage them from hunting/reporting bugs.

> For example, hiding the algorithm from whitehats may prevent/discourage them from hunting/reporting bugs.

Yea, this is a serious concern, I guess it depends on use cases. For sure "security by obscurity considered harmful" could be true, thats the thing people overgeneralize and fight over it when this should be weighted depending on the circumstances.

Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”

#214

Post by 3chelon » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 8:40 AM UTC

etendue wrote: post #202

3chelon wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Useful to know. Of course, batteries get better and electronics gets lower powered - I can imagine in the near future implanted devices being effectively passive (such as RFID)... but your point about the body being a hostile environment is definitely something I hadn't considered before.

To expand on one aspect of hostile, some white blood cells greet foreign bodies with micromolar concentrations of a variety of oxidants and radicals: hypohalous acids (not just the familiar household bleach, hypochlorous acid, but also the nastier hypobromous acid), peroxides, superoxide, nitroxides, maybe even hydroxyl radical. Realizing that, it's easy to see why autoimmune diseases are so devastating.

Of course, it's chemical warfare down there. Using strong acids and the like to destroy bacteria and virus structures is something I'd heard about, at the microscopic level, but I'd absolutely never thought about its implications on a macro scale before.

Presumably they sheath these devices in inert plastics or something in an attempt to counteract all this?

Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”

#215

Post by TickleSteve » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 10:11 AM UTC

flukus wrote: post #212

TickleSteve wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the paperwork is describing the system design from high level down to low-level to sufficient detail that an external auditor can use it to examine the source then no, that is not true. The security/safety processes (as applicable) are examined at every level from system-design all the way down to implementation. Its not perfect, but its best practice we have for secure/safe product development.

If the paperwork was that sufficient then you could compile they paperwork.

that was known as model-driven-development.... been thru that....

Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”

#216

Post by flukus » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 11:21 PM UTC

TickleSteve wrote: post #215

flukus wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the paperwork was that sufficient then you could compile they paperwork.

that was known as model-driven-development.... been thru that....

Starts with a U and ends with an L? I'm so, so sorry.

Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”

#217

Post by Balgair » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 11:26 PM UTC

3chelon wrote: post #214

etendue wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To expand on one aspect of hostile, some white blood cells greet foreign bodies with micromolar concentrations of a variety of oxidants and radicals: hypohalous acids (not just the familiar household bleach, hypochlorous acid, but also the nastier hypobromous acid), peroxides, superoxide, nitroxides, maybe even hydroxyl radical. Realizing that, it's easy to see why autoimmune diseases are so devastating.

Of course, it's chemical warfare down there. Using strong acids and the like to destroy bacteria and virus structures is something I'd heard about, at the microscopic level, but I'd absolutely never thought about its implications on a macro scale before. Presumably they sheath these devices in inert plastics or something in an attempt to counteract all this?

We do. Silicone, gold, porcelain, and titanium are actually pretty good for being bio-inert as well as many many other compounds. The metals obviously come with many issues too (heav metal poisoning, weight, different elasticity, etc) and the plastics are not as durable or tough as the metals. Also, these things tend not to be 'squishy' so impacts and wear and tear are tough on them.

Fun fact: Gold teeth caps are really good for you, though maybe not your love life. Gold has very very similar mechanical parameters to your dentin.

Overall, bioengineers are making great strides into these compounds. We are developing new heart stents that coil and expand in response to heat or can just be injected and will solidify and expand wherever they are needed. A cool development sector is in 'smart' hip replacements. They have nano-pores in the titanium to induce bone growth into the implant and create a better and more healthy bond.