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Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

wsj.com

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Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#341

Post by elmigranto »

blahi wrote: post #246
FoeNyx wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why do you keep going there? Have you ever considered that some contents are only available there? It's more the fault of some users that post required informations there, but it's a reality. Personally I rarely go there, and would rather never have to go there.

I fail to see why that consideration should make a difference. Facebook provides a service, if you want to use the service, you see ads. If you don't want to see ads, don't use the service. Your livelihood is not threatened if you don't see some information hidden through a facebook login. If some friend of yours handles invitation through FB, that is because facebook provides a very good infrastructure to handle tho…

No. Facebook does not provide a service, you said it yourself, it is "ad supported". What they provide is a platform that companies pay to show ads on. Kind of like billboards and ad agencies. Snickers bar drawn on the street is not a service, even if you happened to glance over it.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#342

Post by danielweber »

MichaelGG wrote: post #333
kbenson wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are welcome to try. And I am welcome to try harder to block them. Well, you've given them permission to try. I doubt they are giving you any such permission, so you're actually presuming quite a bit when you say you're welcome to try as well. This actually matters, because as far as the law is concerned, you don't have any right to to the content beyond what they allow you (excluding laws specific to your subm…

I don't understand this. It's your browser. It's not like it's illegal to, say, run a noncompliant browser that misrenders things. An adblocker is the same.

"I can do what I want with my browser" is irrelevant to the fact that you do not have a right to Facebook's content. They give out the content on their terms.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#343

Post by Nursie »

danielweber wrote: post #338
wutbrodo wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people install adblockers typically because they find the ads are intrusive (full-screen graphic overlays, etc), or their machine gets infected with ad network-delivered malware. If you presented ads that were respectful to the visitor (i.e. weren't offensive) I expect the blocker escalation war would cease. This is absolutely incorrect. Users may install them because they find some amount of ads to be abusive, but…

Can you mod my Playstation? I need to play, um, archived games. Yeah that's it. Archived games.

While this cliche is indeed very true, the ability to play games from a hard-drive in the PS2 was amazing. No ferreting about for disks, much faster load times etc. I didn't pirate a single one, and loved HDLoader.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#344

Post by CaptSpify »

wutbrodo wrote: post #303
chiph wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the point of the question - people install adblockers typically because they find the ads are intrusive (full-screen graphic overlays, etc), or their machine gets infected with ad network-delivered malware. If you presented ads that were respectful to the visitor (i.e. weren't offensive) I expect the blocker escalation war would cease.

> people install adblockers typically because they find the ads are intrusive (full-screen graphic overlays, etc), or their machine gets infected with ad network-delivered malware. If you presented ads that were respectful to the visitor (i.e. weren't offensive) I expect the blocker escalation war would cease. This is absolutely incorrect. Users may install them because they find some amount of ads to be abusive, but…

Unfortunately I agree with you. I try to do that, but too many sites are abusive. If a site said "hey, we see you block ads, please unblock, we only use small text ads", I'd unblock right away. Most of the time though, after I unblock a site, I immediately have to re-block it.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#345

Post by elmigranto »

bertiewhykovich wrote: post #259
evunveot wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My attempt at the analogy would be: someone offers to come to your house and, using your Legos, build a little Lego castle in your living room for free, so you say "Sure," and when they come over they build the castle, but then they use the rest of your Legos to build a little Lego giraffe. "Why'd you build a giraffe, too? I just wanted a castle." "I get paid to do that by the National Council on Giraffes." "Well, so…

It's more of a situation where you've been informed well in advance that this person will be building a giraffe, and that your castle is in fact funded by their giraffe-building activities -- but once they've built the castle, you try your damnedest to prevent them from completing the giraffe.

Okay, I bite. Which exact part of Facebook's sign up process informs you that you are obliged to look at ads, install cookie beacon and not block any of that? Do I automatically agree to all of that just by typing fb.com and hitting enter?

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#346

Post by Nursie »

hsod wrote: post #285
facetube wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely nothing dishonest about only downloading and rendering the web content you want to view.

IMO, the technical mechanisms are irrelevant. the ethical questions easily map to a face-to-face interaction.

I don't believe they do map that easily - in a face to face interaction I'm not enabling your advertising with my bandwidth and my rendering device.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#347

Post by CaptSpify »

blahi wrote: post #286
millstone wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook tracks you and shows you ads regardless of whether you use Facebook. http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/27/11795248/facebook-ad-netwo...

How is this pertinent to the discussion about serving and blocking ads on facebook.com?

He's saying that facebook feels entitled to my data, even if I'm not using their resources. Why shouldn't I, then, feel entitled to their resources without blocking ads?

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#348

Post by Karunamon »

omginternets wrote: post #169
creshal wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's facebook's problem, not the user's.

You've got it exactly backwards. The service is free, ergo you are the product, ergo Facebook's problems are your problems. You have three choices: 1. Stop using Facebook 2. Pay Facebook to remove ads 3. Look at ads I've opted for option 1, though I'll happily revisit this choice if Facebook (A) finds a way to make money without serving ads and without requiring me to pay out-of-pocket (unlikely) or (B) Facebook star…

4. Use Facebook anyways, and render its markup on my computer and my internet connection as I see fit.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#349

Post by awad »

topspin wrote: post #31
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can think of a few simple tricks already. One: Host from the main facebook.com domain, either inserting it in the basic html page response from the server, or from an API / content location that cannot be predicted. (ad calls should be indistinguishable from 'normal' content calls). Two, do the same with content locations, so no 'div id="ad"' or anything like that. Should be easy enough.

"Host from the main facebook.com domain..." If true I believe that this would actually be an important improvement. This removes some plausible deniability regarding malware and other abuse; Facebook (or whomever else adopts this scheme) must guard more carefully against abuse when the content is coming from their own domains, as opposed to some third party.

As far as I am aware, all ad creative is hosted and served exclusively by Facebook anyway.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#350

Post by ocdtrekkie »

daveguy wrote: post #334
ihsw wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no chance to recover a user after they install an adblocker.

Unless you stop using ad networks and just inline unobtrusive text ads?

This is a trap. If you make your ads content-like, and integrate them into your content, then people will say your site is deceptive, hiding ads in content so people read them like factual articles.
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