Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#321

Post by hsod » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:44 PM UTC

beagle3 wrote: post #249

corysama wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not bad actually. Hanging out on FB with and ad blocker is literally loitering in their servers. You are racking up costs for them and actively refusing to provide value in return. IHMO, it would be very reasonable for FB to deny service to ad-block users. But, I understand they'd rather attempt to keep you around first.

But it's the cost of doing business for many businesses. Would you consider an air conditioned mall that throws people out if they don't shop in any of the stores "reasonable"?

Yes, if those people did it frequently and explicitly and wrote posts online about how great it is and how everyone else should do it too.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#322

Post by fapjacks » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:45 PM UTC

sadfounder wrote: post #300

corford wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to be hard for facebook because they're such a big target. I think where ad-blockers will start to have problems is with the millions of lesser known sites. Once these publishers swap over to proxying ad-content through their own domains and using a handful of simple evasion tactics (random file name for the self hosted JS file that pulls in the ad, site specific pseudo-random DOM element names for the ad…

> Once these publishers swap over to proxying ad-content through their own domains Do you know anyone who is doing this already?

They will, once the "free money" of normal shitty ads stops working. Then, once the amount of work required to serve proxied ad-content through their own domains is more than the benefit of the "free money" of shitty ads, the force of human nature means that most publishers will move to that model. Personally, I think this will become a machine learning battlefield in the next handful of years.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#323

Post by Animats » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:46 PM UTC

Just write a browser add-on to delete the entire right hand column of Facebook pages.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#324

Post by tdkl » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:47 PM UTC

nostrebored wrote: post #276

tdkl wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't want to see it and there's no option to hide it. FB is also full of attention catching crap like that, it's all engineered.

You act like engineering things that most people like is a bad thing. You're not going to please everyone. Even people who will like it a month down the line will hate it when you first roll out the change. And we should you have to support (|feature|!) different websites?

> You act like engineering things that most people like is a bad thing.

Like or is being exploited based on genetical brain responses to like because of the result of the "quest for new information" ?

This behaviour is psychologically engineered to trigger more dopamine fueled hits and with it fueling site engagement.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#325

Post by niftich » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:48 PM UTC

Luckily Facebook still offers APIs to all of its content, so it's entirely possible to keep using (or build a new) third-party client that would whitelist content from actual Friends and therefore passively block ads.

Unlike (also-Facebook-owned) Instagram, which has lately made it very difficult to get the content back out.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#326

Post by dangerboysteve » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:48 PM UTC

chiph wrote: post #257

legohead wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We started off nice: "Hey, you are disabling ads, please turn them on" etc. Then we offered an ad-free subscription (almost worthless). And I think we played with another idea or two, before finally going through with the blocking adblockers.

I think you missed the point of the question - people install adblockers typically because they find the ads are intrusive (full-screen graphic overlays, etc), or their machine gets infected with ad network-delivered malware. If you presented ads that were respectful to the visitor (i.e. weren't offensive) I expect the blocker escalation war would cease.

Another issue is that many 3rd party ad networks have performance issues. Nothing like waiting for the ad network to catch up so you can view the site.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#327

Post by ubernostrum » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:52 PM UTC

hsod wrote: post #314

ubernostrum wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so how far would you like to take that? Facebook will try to track me and my behavior, and tailor ads based on it, regardless of whether I'm a Facebook user and regardless of whether I'm logged in. In theory any link someone sends me might end up trying to connect to Facebook's advertising network and record information about my behavior. At what point do I "agree" to this? What do I get "in return" for this? Wha…

This is an overly specific distraction. Accidentally or unwillingly loading FB resources doesn't come with any ethical obligations, obviously. I'm talking about being a Facebook user, as in maintaining a profile and logging on and using the site. My contention is that by affirmatively choosing to use their resources, an ethical obligation is created.

I don't think I have any ethical obligation to Facebook whatsoever. My browser is my agent, not theirs. I can and do already modify lots of sites to hide cruft (like "social recommendations") I don't want to see; do you think I have an ethical obligation to consume a site exactly as its creator intended it to look? Do I only have an ethical obligation if the creator stands to somehow make money from it? What if what I'm blocking isn't an ad but is a referral link where they'd get paid if I go there and buy something?

There is no coherent position which creates an ethical obligation to view sites in full and unmodified (especially given that one of the primary purposes of web browsers, historically, has been to mangle what a site sent to you into something that's actually a sensible and renderable document tree).

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#328

Post by elmigranto » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:53 PM UTC

fragola wrote: post #304

ominous wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am against business trying to make me agree the price is fair. And the price of having ads displayed on my computer is too high. Ads are like a donation box, not like a price tag. Am I being forced to donate?

>Ads are a donation box, not a price tag Well, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion. But realistically, we all consume content that is ad-supported that we might be paying for otherwise. The fact that so many ad-or-pay services exist is proof of this (Youtube with ads, Hulu with ads, etc.) The are both business models. If you don't like the service at the price, don't buy it. Honestly, no one is forcing you…

You say "buy" but I do not see how this applies to Facebook. I do not buy anything, there is no money changing hands, no product offered or received.

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#329

Post by elmigranto » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:55 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #288

omginternets wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: "if you [Facebook] want me to consume ads, make ads I want to consume". The thing is, this already exists and it's called native advertising. The trick is to create advertisements that, while endorsing a product, have real value for me. A simple example: a tutorial on doing XYZ with Docker on Google Compute Engine might (A) be relevant to my interests and immediately useful,…

I actually run a local-interest blog for my small city, and whenever I talk to people about it they're amazed I don't have ads all over the place. "How do you make money", "why would you run this site without making money", "you should be getting something for it", etc. They don't immediately realize that 90% of the content on the site is advertising, and I actually am getting paid for it. I'll write an article about…

Do you disclose that content is sponsored? If not, is it legal?

Re: Facebook will force advertising on ad-blocking users

#330

Post by bitwize » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 7:58 PM UTC

jawilson2 wrote: post #200

bitwize wrote: post #195

Remember, "your contract with the network is you're going to watch the spots." By ad blocking, you are not upholding your end of the "bargain", therefore you're technically committing theft of service. And companies have few ethical qualms concerning thieves.

> "your contract with the network is you're going to watch the spots." Where is this from?

Former Turner Broadcasting chairman Jamie Kellner, explaining to us why DVRs are to television what the Boston Strangler was to the woman home alone, said "Your contract with the network when you get the show is you're going to watch the spots. […] Any time you skip a commercial or watch the button you're actually stealing the programming."

This was the same guy who cancelled Animaniacs and Freakazoid, btw.