How to Have Healthy Relationships as a Developer • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Have Healthy Relationships as a Developer

#121

Post by bmj » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 3:51 PM UTC

binarycrusader wrote: post #119

karlmcguire wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here, I agree to an extent. As I said in the "Spend Time With Them" section, a lot of developers also program as their hobby. In fact, you pretty much have to program in your free time in order to keep up with all the new paradigms and frameworks. Jobs that have been around a lot longer, like construction or accounting, allow you to just leave your work when you go home. In that way I think developers face a u…

Almost any crafting profession involves practice outside of work; for example: painting, photography, sculpting, etc. I also suspect many academic professions fall into this trap as well: mathematician, physicist, etc. As a developer myself, I don't think this particular aspect is unique, instead I think it's a matter of perspective and what we value in life. For example, many individuals if they see someone reading…

Almost any crafting profession involves practice outside of work; for example: painting, photography, sculpting, etc.

Well, if I'm an artist, there's probably not a clear line between "work" and "hobby" unless you are regularly commissioned to create specific works (and even then, unless you're painting portraits, you probably have some freedom in your choices). Photography might be an edge case, as you may do journalism by day and some form of art photography by night.

I suspect, however, that other engineers (mechanical, electrical, chemical, etc) don't have to spend their evenings doing engineering work to stay sharp.

Re: How to Have Healthy Relationships as a Developer

#122

Post by madelinecameron » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 3:52 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #46

galfarragem wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By experience, the answer is quite easy: when both have the same occupation it gets boring very fast. It's much more enriching having the opportunity to learn about a different field than coming home and continue to listen about the same. Rationally I would never pick somebody from the same field as me.

> when both have the same occupation it gets boring very fast. It gets boring even when your occupations are so alien to each other, that there's little you can share beyond bog-standard office gossip.

Eh, we just don't talk about it.

My fiance works in a t-shirt printing shop and I work as a developer. I enjoy hearing about his work, he enjoys hearing about mine but we know neither of us could do what the other does.

Re: How to Have Healthy Relationships as a Developer

#123

Post by sanderjd » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

rjbwork wrote: post #36

>Our brains automatically group similar memories together in order to save space. As developers, years can feel like weeks if we don’t actively pursue different experiences. This hit me hard. Feels like the years have just slipped on by since I graduated university. Not particularly sure how to stop it though...maybe a few more years and I can just take a few months off and travel or something?

> maybe a few more years and I can just take a few months off and travel or something?

How about, say, a month from now, take 3 weeks off to go somewhere you haven't been, or go be with your family. Or maybe next week, take Monday off, or maybe Thursday and Friday and just have a nice quiet weekend away from the computer. You don't need to be able to take a bunch of months off in order to get some quality down time in. Don't let great be the enemy of good. Sure it may be great to take a few months off at a time, but it's good to take a couple days or weeks off here and there.

Re: How to Have Healthy Relationships as a Developer

#124

Post by bmj » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 3:56 PM UTC

karlmcguire wrote: post #95

owenversteeg wrote: post #70

Personally, I don't think that having healthy relationships as a developer is much different than having healthy relationships as anyone else. As with any other technical job, it can be hard to explain exactly what your job is, but a bit of humor and an ELI5-style explanation goes a long way. One thing specific to programmers is the ability to whip up a little program to help people. Someone spends an hour every day…

Author here, I agree to an extent. As I said in the "Spend Time With Them" section, a lot of developers also program as their hobby. In fact, you pretty much have to program in your free time in order to keep up with all the new paradigms and frameworks. Jobs that have been around a lot longer, like construction or accounting, allow you to just leave your work when you go home. In that way I think developers face a u…

In fact, you pretty much have to program in your free time in order to keep up with all the new paradigms and frameworks.

And this is problem with our industry. I have friends that are mechanical or electrical engineers, very good ones, and they do not spend their non-working hours doing engineering. If their work requires them to learn something new, their employers actually give them the time and money to learn that skill, rather than just expecting them to learn it in their spare time.

When I first came into software 16 years ago, I did do a lot of "programming for fun" in my off hours, but I also came into the industry with no formal education in software engineering. Once I got out of the start-up world about 10 years ago, I discovered that my employers would allow me keep up with industry trends on company time, and while I still may hack a bit on things outside of work if something interesting intrigues me, I generally avoid doing any programming in my off hours and instead investment my time in other things.

Re: How to Have Healthy Relationships as a Developer

#125

Post by steven777400 » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 4:05 PM UTC

ceit wrote: post #102

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In fact, you pretty much have to program in your free time in order to keep up with all the new paradigms and frameworks Lol no. If I'm coding it's not free time, and if I'm coding to learn it's professional development, not recreation. "Coding is a lifestyle" is such a scam.

User name xkcd-sucks. Not a fan of coding for fun. Hackathons? Have you ever just wanted to write a web scraper in a new language to see how it is different from your usual? Never coded a small video game? Why are you a programmer then?

Not OP and personally I love XKCD. But, I can answer a little.

I don't usually "code for fun". Sure, I like the feeling of accomplishing a task or solving a problem, but overall I don't generally enjoy programming enough that I would want to try something just "to see how it is different from your usual". I won't say I never write small programs or try new techniques; that's an exaggeration.

I call this job my "bronze handcuffs": other jobs pay substantially less, are more physically dangerous, and are more susceptible to being consumed by automation. So it makes sense to keep doing what I'm doing.

Re: How to Have Healthy Relationships as a Developer

#126

Post by fluxquanta » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 4:26 PM UTC

thanatropism wrote: post #118

LPT though: have friends at work but don't flirt with them. I had a really good friend at work for a while but it always had this flirty undercurrent. We both had SOs, but enjoyed the "office wife/husband" thing (my real wife actually knew about it and was not jealous). Anyway, the flirtationship thing makes you as vulnerable to criticism as an actual relationship, so the occasional sarcastic tirade or bad mood day r…

I would say your caution shouldn't only apply only to flirtatious relationships, but rather any interpersonal relationship at work that becomes too casual.

I work in a small shop and was hired as the third developer, about 4 months after developer number two. Of course, Number 2 and I became friends pretty quickly and we would hang out outside of work on occasion. That is, until one day when some totally insignificant disagreement resulted in threats of physical violence against me. Needless to say, I didn't enjoy that, we never hung out again. I brought the comment up with management (the company owner) and as far as I can tell nothing came of it.

Now, as our company and development staff has grown the owner has put this same guy in a managerial role that I have to answer to, and because of our history, it's becoming more difficult to stay productive in our interactions.

In other words, friends in the workplace can be a good thing, but if it backfires, and especially if you're both candidates for advancement in the same department, the repercussions could have you polishing your resume.

Re: How to Have Healthy Relationships as a Developer

#127

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 4:46 PM UTC

swampthinker wrote: post #105

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In fact, you pretty much have to program in your free time in order to keep up with all the new paradigms and frameworks Lol no. If I'm coding it's not free time, and if I'm coding to learn it's professional development, not recreation. "Coding is a lifestyle" is such a scam.

And you're entitled to your opinion. But there are definitely a pool of developers out there that enjoy programming as a hobby.

Yup, I'm one of them. But the coding I do at home isn't remotely related to what I do at work. Otherwise it would be too much like bringing work home.

Re: How to Have Healthy Relationships as a Developer

#128

Post by jdminhbg » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 5:04 PM UTC

alvarosm wrote: post #68

jdminhbg wrote: post #22

> Talk About Your Work I strongly disagree with this one, although I'm not sure if my reasoning is broadly or only personally applicable. The last thing I want to do at the end of a long day of work is recap what I did. Even in the best-case scenario of a day full of victories, it's just exhausting to try to relive all of them with the added burden of explaining the decade-plus knowledge base you'd need to understand…

It's not about what you want it's about what others may like to hear from you. And if you're doing something all day long and you can't talk about it, what do you talk about? you'll be like a foreign object to others

> And if you're doing something all day long and you can't talk about it, what do you talk about?

Music, sports, reality tv, literature, friends, etc. Basically anything else.

Re: How to Have Healthy Relationships as a Developer

#129

Post by morgante » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 6:01 PM UTC

TheCapn wrote: post #113

ceit wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

User name xkcd-sucks. Not a fan of coding for fun. Hackathons? Have you ever just wanted to write a web scraper in a new language to see how it is different from your usual? Never coded a small video game? Why are you a programmer then?

Do you ever find yourself interacting with a carpenter and asking him why he doesn't build additions to his house, or his friend's homes in his free time? What about an accountant? Ever quiz them or deride them for not going out of their way to balance budgets and crunch numbers for family & friends? Why is programming this anomaly to people where there's a necessity for you to want to spend your personal hours doing…

First of all, a lot of carpenters do in fact work on side projects in their free time. My dad certainly does.

We need to recognize that programming is a creative craft and the norm for those is to do it as a hobby.

Most musicians, including "professional" ones, play for fun as well. As do dancers, poets, writers, artists, etc.

Do you think most academics leave "work," go home and never think about their research again?

I have no problem with people who somehow decided to program despite not enjoying it enough to do it in their free time. But they shouldn't attack those of us who do for daring to spend our free time in a pleasurable way. And they should accept that there's a simple reality that those of us who enjoy it are going to spend more time at it and thus level up more quickly.

Re: How to Have Healthy Relationships as a Developer

#130

Post by aninhumer » Tue, Aug 09, 2016, 6:24 PM UTC

Philipp__ wrote: post #112

aninhumer wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get used to writing in inclusive terms, these changes don't cost anything. They're just how you naturally express ideas, and exclusive terms feel unnaturally specific.

After giving it a second thought you are right. But what struck me about initial comment was that I read the blog post first, which I think was pretty straight forward, just to find out that somebody was giving shit to OP for not including something that wasn't even remotley close to the subject. Statistics are what's holding the whole thing back. I have friends that are gay and I am totally open minded about anythin…

Are they really "giving shit to OP" though? I feel like the criticism was presented pretty politely. They pointed out that it's offtopic and that it's not intentional, and they provided an alternative.

That said, I can understand people being touchy about this, as these issues have become very polarised. PC should be about helping people choose to use inclusive language, but some people choose to shame people for getting wrong.