Philosophy - She doesn't know the code that's running on machines inside her body. I don't even know the code that's running my heart. And yet, I trust it.
The latter has undergone far more testing than the former.
“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”
31–40 of 217 posts
Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”
#32Philosophy - She doesn't know the code that's running on machines inside her body. I don't even know the code that's running my heart. And yet, I trust it.
except code running your heart was built over millions of years and code she mentions - created by company in years - see the difference? :)
Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”
#33Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”
#3410 be dumb
20 goto 10
you're all idiots.
Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If your company takes ~2 years to develop a pacemaker's software, it's not to your advantage to let your competitors catch up. Why should the patient who has the pacemaker implanted care? This seems like a clear situation in which the patient's interests trump everybody else's. Pacemaker manufacturers should be competing in how well their devices meet patient needs. Closed source doesn't meet a key patient need.
As heartless as this sounds: the patient isn't the only person in the equation. There are investors that fund the medical research, a company has employees to pay, the hospital wants the best pacemaker available, etc.
Sure - why not ask patient for paid subscription for privilege of using pacemaker? Somebody please think of the investors...
Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”
#36By extension should every device I own require me to have access to the source code and output data? Not a rhetorical question.
Do you want to control the device, or do you want someone else to control your devices? If you're OK with someone else (who probably doesn't have your well-being anywhere in their list of priorities) controlling all of your devices, then the answer is no, you are not required to have access to the source code and output data. EDIT: I didn't realize this was such a controversial statement. I stand by it, though; even…
In theory, open sourcing pacemaker software make sense, but in practice, the pool of people qualified to review and edit that software may not be very large. Most people would still be depending on someone else to control their devices in any case.
Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”
#37By extension should every device I own require me to have access to the source code and output data? Not a rhetorical question.
Do you want to control the device, or do you want someone else to control your devices? If you're OK with someone else (who probably doesn't have your well-being anywhere in their list of priorities) controlling all of your devices, then the answer is no, you are not required to have access to the source code and output data. EDIT: I didn't realize this was such a controversial statement. I stand by it, though; even…
If someone else is controlling the device, then they de facto own it and should be liable for any damage it causes. The user cannot both be liable for something and be unable to manage/fix it.
In the case of a pacemaker or other medical devices, this liability could even include manslaughter.
Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's a competitive advantage in keeping pacemakers' source code proprietary? There definitely is. If your company takes ~2 years to develop a pacemaker's software, it's not to your advantage to let your competitors catch up. I'm not saying it's a good thing that it's closed source, but there is definitely incentive to keep your research to yourself.
> If your company takes ~2 years to develop a pacemaker's software, it's not to your advantage to let your competitors catch up. Why should the patient who has the pacemaker implanted care? This seems like a clear situation in which the patient's interests trump everybody else's. Pacemaker manufacturers should be competing in how well their devices meet patient needs. Closed source doesn't meet a key patient need.
Medical device software is subject to a level of rigor in development process that little else is.
Exactly what patient need do you believe open source would meet that is not being met by the current closed-source development process?
Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”
#39Philosophy - She doesn't know the code that's running on machines inside her body. I don't even know the code that's running my heart. And yet, I trust it.
except code running your heart was built over millions of years and code she mentions - created by company in years - see the difference? :)
Which is funny because, nonetheless, she had to replace the code built over millions of years by code created in a few years.
Re: “I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body”
#40Another really good talk about the topic, "freedon in my heart" by Karen Sandler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XDTQLa3NjE It's mentioned in the article.
I can't recommend this talk enough. If you have the time, it is one the best keynotes I've ever been privileged enough to watch.
Ever since then, I've been very interested in all the paperwork sent to my grand father about his pacemaker + defib implant. Recently they mentioned to him that they will send out a remote monitoring device and Karens talk immediately jumped to mind.
Initially the documentation talked about how the remote monitoring device needed to be held close to the heart for a few seconds in order to download the relevant data. This gave me a modicum of hope that at the very least it was some sort of NFC type communication. This would at least make it harder to physically exploit.
However, they continued to say that if you want it to monitor you every night, just put it within three metres of your bed while you sleep. I had a search online and there does not seem to be a lot of people particularly interested in this area, although repos such as https://github.com/openaps/decocare give me hope in the ability of the community to reverse the relevant protocols and investigate these devices.