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Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

nytimes.com

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Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#51

Post by littletimmy »

moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

Ordinary people do seem to like their royalty. The endless fascination that the people of Japan have with their Emperor, the British have with their royal family, among other examples, shows that people do find it comforting to see a familiar face at the helm of the nation. Sort of like a representative of the national will.

And "modern egalitarian society"? Please. The only reason democracy works in the US is that the media brainwashes people into acquiescing to elite opinion. There was not (and will never be) any egalitarian civilization on earth.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#52

Post by moogly »

twblalock wrote: post #22
moogly wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of nations have successfully abolished constitutional monarchy in the past couple of hundred years. The role and political power of the head of state (be it Prime Minister/Chancellor or President, or a combination — doesn't matter) should be well-defined in the constutition (which of course needs changing). I don't really see any loopholes here... I find that argument to be a red herring. As you say, in some c…

On the other hand, consider the example of France. The fourth republic had a symbolic president, and the fifth republic has a very powerful president, because DeGaulle demanded executive power as a condition of assuming the presidency during the Algerian crisis of the late 1950s. That's why the fourth republic ended and the fifth republic began -- DeGaulle had a new constitution written. The situation in Japan is pre…

As you yourself say, the situation in Japan is pretty stable. The events in France you mention was during wartime, in the lead-up to what could be called "colonial collapse". Hardly comparable.

It matters because a hereditary head of state position (actually, any governmental/establishmentarian position) is a terrible symbol in what should be an egalitarian society, no matter if you have political power or not. I don't know how to put this more succinctly.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#53

Post by hristov »

One interesting factoid that the new york times did not mention is that while it was common for emperors to resign before the meiji restoration, a lot of those resignations probably were not voluntary.

The Japanese emperors are the longest reigning royal dynasty in the world, having reigned for the entire known history of the nation. But perhaps heir secret is that they did not have much power most of the time.

During the time of the shoguns and even before that it was common to force an emperor to resign before he reaches adulthood so as to ensure that there was a child emperor on the throne at all times. A child emperor of course is unlikely to use his position to seize power.

The Meiji restoration was a revolution whose stated goal was to restore the power to the emperor. Perhaps it was in view of that goal and the history of forced resignatons that they made a law that did not even give the emperor the option to resign. However, I am not certain whether the present emperor for life law dates back to the meiji restoration.

Or perhaps they put the law in after WW2 to ensure that foreign governments do not mess with the emperors.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#54

Post by ptaipale »

stuaxo wrote: post #33

Then maybe Britains Queen could resign, she looks like she's eaten a wasp whenever she appears in public or on TV.

Elizabeth II is 90 years old. I think she looks remarkably vital for a person so old and presumably not without pressures in her official role, even if largely invisible to the outside world.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#55

Post by wtbob »

kogepathic wrote: post #37
gfodor wrote: post #21

I find it bizarre that Japan is having an contentious debate about if it's appropriate for a woman to ascend to a completely powerless role while the US just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for president. edit: Wow, apparently this is an offensive comment. I'm having a hard time twisting my brain to see how, but my point was simply that the it seems odd that there would be contention over a powerless ro…

> while the US just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for president. And as someone who isn't from the US, I find it incredibly bizarre that you haven't had a female leader yet. The UK has had 2 female Prime Ministers (1979-1990, 2016-), Canada has had 1 (1993), and Germany (2005-) to name a few. > I find it bizarre that Japan is having an contentious debate about if it's appropriate for a woman to ascend…

> And as someone who isn't from the US, I find it incredibly bizarre that you haven't had a female leader yet.

Why? For that matter, we don't have a 'leader'; we have a President.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#56

Post by ptaipale »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #27
gfodor wrote: post #21

I find it bizarre that Japan is having an contentious debate about if it's appropriate for a woman to ascend to a completely powerless role while the US just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for president. edit: Wow, apparently this is an offensive comment. I'm having a hard time twisting my brain to see how, but my point was simply that the it seems odd that there would be contention over a powerless ro…

I find it bizarre that the United States only just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for President while Sri Lanka named its first female Prime Minister almost 60 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirimavo_Bandaranaike Or the UK almost 40 years ago. Or Germany 11 years ago. :)

I don't find it so bizarre. The emergence of women to major political roles is a thing of the past 1-2 generations in almost all of the world (with the exception of some monarchs).

(I guess it would be almost safe to count Benazir Bhutto, Prime Minister of Pakistan in 1988-90 and 93-96, as a monarch...)

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#57

Post by moogly »

mehwoot wrote: post #32
moogly wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of nations have successfully abolished constitutional monarchy in the past couple of hundred years. The role and political power of the head of state (be it Prime Minister/Chancellor or President, or a combination — doesn't matter) should be well-defined in the constutition (which of course needs changing). I don't really see any loopholes here... I find that argument to be a red herring. As you say, in some c…

Australia voted against the chance to replace its constitutional monarchy because of ambiguities and uncertainties about these questions. People know what they are getting with the existing systems and the constitutional monarchs have no real power. If you're changing that you have to be very careful.

Maybe I am cynical but are you sure they didn't vote against it because they like "traditions", pretty parades and hand-waving and think princes and princesses are quaint and fun and secretly in their hearts they wish they could be one?

I do live in a 1000-year-old constitutional monarchy after all and that's the pro arguments I tend to hear.

"Good for tourism" is another one.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#58

Post by kiba »

moogly wrote: post #52
twblalock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, consider the example of France. The fourth republic had a symbolic president, and the fifth republic has a very powerful president, because DeGaulle demanded executive power as a condition of assuming the presidency during the Algerian crisis of the late 1950s. That's why the fourth republic ended and the fifth republic began -- DeGaulle had a new constitution written. The situation in Japan is pre…

As you yourself say, the situation in Japan is pretty stable. The events in France you mention was during wartime, in the lead-up to what could be called "colonial collapse". Hardly comparable. It matters because a hereditary head of state position (actually, any governmental/establishmentarian position) is a terrible symbol in what should be an egalitarian society, no matter if you have political power or not. I don…

I don't know why we should be bike-shedding about something of absolutely zero consequence to the system of governance.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#59

Post by TeMPOraL »

geuis wrote: post #30
ajuc wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pope can actually make decisions with consequences.

There is a big difference though. The power of the Pope has been restricted over a period of centuries. The power of the Emperor of Japan has only been restricted for about 70 years. At this point, neither party can really "make decisions with consequence", especially the Pope. They can mutually make declarations, and people may or may not respond to them. In that regard, they are as equally weak as all of the variou…

> When I visited there in 2010, I left with a feeling that I visited a sleeping country/culture that was literally missing some polarizing goal to reignite it.

Isn't this similar to the whole Western world? I mean, my impression of modern democracies I know is they're similar to headless chickens - running around without a point or a goal, but oh how fast they run.

EDIT: to be clear, I'm not criticizing democracy here per se, this is my observation about the Western societies. I understand it's not the role of a government to dictate a goal for people - it's to facilitate pursuing goals in a stable and orderly manner. But wouldn't it be nice if our societies had at least a little bit more of a sense of common purpose?

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#60

Post by moogly »

wtbob wrote: post #55
kogepathic wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while the US just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for president. And as someone who isn't from the US, I find it incredibly bizarre that you haven't had a female leader yet. The UK has had 2 female Prime Ministers (1979-1990, 2016-), Canada has had 1 (1993), and Germany (2005-) to name a few. > I find it bizarre that Japan is having an contentious debate about if it's appropriate for a woman to ascend…

> And as someone who isn't from the US, I find it incredibly bizarre that you haven't had a female leader yet. Why? For that matter, we don't have a 'leader'; we have a President.

Or as some would call it: a "Decider". :)
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