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Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

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Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#231

Post by astrange »

maxsilver wrote: post #170
drcross wrote: post #17

The elephant in the room is that personal mobility is going to undergo a complete redesign in the coming decade as vehicles drive for themselves. This will bring about a complete change in usage patterns so doing anything in this space is pre-mature and we should hold off to see how society's requirements change. For example maybe on street parking will become a thing of the past as your self driving Uber goes on it'…

> The elephant in the room is that personal mobility is going to undergo a complete redesign in the coming decade as vehicles drive for themselves. The way the argument is going right now, personal mobility won't get redesigned -- it will get eliminated. Faux-urbanists will continue to fight for (and win) at getting cars more-or-less banned in cities. Cars will continue to get better at zero-emissions and self-drivin…

People will certainly not be able to move around in cars after they use up all the oil.

BTW, there are 14 million people in Tokyo (or maybe 40 million) and probably never more than one car per family. They don't seem to have a problem, maybe because they can actually afford to build train lines and don't have commercial zoning over there.

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/29291/if-we-lowered...

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#232

Post by HelloNurse »

txutxu wrote: post #188
beloch wrote: post #127

This article covers things from a pedestrian's perspective, but it honestly looks like there may be benefits for drivers in this system too. For one, this plan immediately halves the number of busy intersections along a given stretch of road (and reduces them to a third if multiple superblocks are built adjacent to one another). Yes, no intersections have been physically removed, but the number of vehicles using thos…

The article asserts many things about the city. I don't bring my Mum to Barcelona by a few reasons, and one of them is that she could be unable to cross most roads, as a pedestrian, on time for the traffic light. Of course that's one of the smallest problems, delinquency being the main one (attracted more in this months by the tourism). Also people is uncivil with old persons here, the locals and the tourists. Walkin…

In the middle of off-topic complaints about Barcelona, there are some objectionable observations.

- Air pollution is a problem in many parts of the city, but it needs to be addressed with the promotion and imposition of cleaner engines. Reducing car use is only a secondary objective of a plan to reclaim streets.

- Bike vs. obstacle and bike vs. pedestrian accidents are much less dangerous than car accidents.

- Like in other cities, there's plenty of quiet corners with few tourists and few cars. Noisy people concentrate in the city center and traffic in the appropriate wide streets like everywhere else, despite the great number of tourists it isn't hell on Earth.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#233

Post by gkya »

astrange wrote: post #230
gkya wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh no but he can pay with the credit card. Sad how we trade in others' lives and economical morals so easily for such little conveniences. Thanks for your response that are thoughts that I share.

Have you tried using taxis in California before Uber? They just absolutely refuse to come and leave you stranded miles from anywhere. If you try to pay with a card, they kidnap you and drive you to an ATM to get cash instead. I once called the Burlingame dispatch instead of the San Mateo dispatch and got screamed at. It's life-threateningly bad.

The world is bigger than the US. And because the system is badly implemented where you are the system itself can't be considered inherently bad and obsolete. I have never been to the US but from what I read your experience is common there. Compare that to TfL black cabs. Or elaborate urban rail and bus transport in European cities. If it broke one should try to fix it first.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#234

Post by smartbit »

This is a variant of the Verkeerscirculatieplan [0] introduced on September 19, 1977 in Groningen, The Netherlands. This map http://www.regiocanons.nl/beeld/Groningen/Groningen/_250/Y39... [1] shows how the old center was devided in 4 sectors (Noord, Oost, Zuid and West) and car traffic was not allowed to cross sectors borders, they had to travel out back to the canal-ring (diepenring in Groningen-language ‘diep’ ~ related to english ‘deep' = canal) first. Bicycles, buses and taxis where allowed to go from one sector to another. It was introduced by the local government consisting of young politicians who took power by a sort of a Coup in the local Social Democratic party. These young guys aged 25-30 years had the vision and courage to give back the city center to pedestrians & bicycles. They reintroduced the daily markets on the central squares (tuesday, wednesday, friday and saturday) which until then where used as parking-lots. To counter objections of local shopowners against the removal of many parking places near their shops, they negotioated with the Shell Oil pensionfund to invest in a parkingbuilding a the beginning of the Haddingestraat [2] 50m from the former parkinglot on the Vismarkt. In return Shell Oil was allowed to have gas-stations on the main exit roads of Groningen.

The Groningen Verkeerscirculatieplan has been an example to many cities in the past 40 years, now including for Barcelona.

[0] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkeerscirculatieplan_Groning...

[1] http://www.regiocanons.nl/groningen/groningen/verkeerscircul...

[2] https://www.google.nl/maps/place/Haddingestraat+2,+9711+KD+G...

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#235

Post by pvaldes »

ethanbond wrote: post #136
mwfunk wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've become very skeptical of any plan to just get rid of something that people need and use, in the hope that that will magically force the issue and usher credible alternatives into existence years down the line. It's sort of like a government trying to reduce government spending by cutting taxes (i.e., the "don't feed the beast" approach). Such efforts never end up reducing spending, rather they just create an env…

It's not really the same at all to your tax analog. The difference is that Congress has the ability to reduce spending and to cut taxes. With the car problem, no one entity has the power to devise nor enforce a holistic solution. Of course, with the exception of a fascist overthrow of the state that tears down cities and rebuilds with central planning. The government can't just come and take people's cars away – you…

> You don't, however, have a right to a parking spot

This is debatable. In some countries there is an old tax for all car owners. They take the money specifically "for your right to have a parking spot for your car". But after you pay the tax, surprise, you realize that there is not a single remaining place with free parking in the entire city... by design. So of course, you are obliged to pay again. The car owner is taxed two times for the same service. Cling, mo' fresh money.

The planned scarcity of park spots is also a source of power and a weapon of mass destruction of high quality employments. If you restrict the access and monopolize the park spots, you can force easily the small bussiness in this areas to flee and make the whole neighborhood into recession. A handful of big bussiness that can build its own private parkings (or, even better, are strong enough to convince the local government to build a big parking for them) will quickly take all.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#236

Post by 6t6t6t6 »

txutxu wrote: post #188
beloch wrote: post #127

This article covers things from a pedestrian's perspective, but it honestly looks like there may be benefits for drivers in this system too. For one, this plan immediately halves the number of busy intersections along a given stretch of road (and reduces them to a third if multiple superblocks are built adjacent to one another). Yes, no intersections have been physically removed, but the number of vehicles using thos…

The article asserts many things about the city. I don't bring my Mum to Barcelona by a few reasons, and one of them is that she could be unable to cross most roads, as a pedestrian, on time for the traffic light. Of course that's one of the smallest problems, delinquency being the main one (attracted more in this months by the tourism). Also people is uncivil with old persons here, the locals and the tourists. Walkin…

I guess that not everybody can love Barcelona...

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#237

Post by HelloNurse »

jowiar wrote: post #34

Worth noting regarding Barcelona is that this is, to a great extent, retrofitting a concept that already exists within the city to "new" parts. In Ciutat Vella, there are a few "outer" thoroughfares, with the inner streets shared between cars and pedestrians. They are, however, narrow to the point where they are not really navigable by anything larger than a Smart Car moving at rolling speed, and it's very clear that…

I see it more as an attempt to revise and scale up the already exceptional block-structured design of the Eixample, which is already trying to pack as much as possible (backyards, terraces, parking...) into the interior of the blocks.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#239

Post by danvideo »

beloch wrote: post #127

This article covers things from a pedestrian's perspective, but it honestly looks like there may be benefits for drivers in this system too. For one, this plan immediately halves the number of busy intersections along a given stretch of road (and reduces them to a third if multiple superblocks are built adjacent to one another). Yes, no intersections have been physically removed, but the number of vehicles using thos…

This was mentioned by another poster, but I don't see many people addressing it.

What about elderly or disabled people who require car/bus transport to live their daily lives? Are there transportation alternatives for those that can't walk as easily?

I'm not saying this can't work with them, but I'm curious what those options would be. Especially if their neighborhood just becomes one of these superblocks (rather than them deciding to live there).

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#240

Post by philwelch »

forgotpwtomain wrote: post #228
philwelch wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone denies that taxi services (which is what self-driving cars will eventually replace) are an important part of a city's transportation network. But owned-and-operated cars don't have to be, and using owned-and-operated cars as the backbone of an urban transportation network doesn't scale. And neither do taxis, and for the same reason.

> But owned-and-operated cars don't have to be, and using owned-and-operated cars as the backbone of an urban transportation network doesn't scale This needs a citation. There are lots of cities in the US where public transport accounts for a minority of transit. You have so far failed to make any argument and only made a provocative comment linking a totally non-informative picture. Have you ever ran errands by bus…

> Have you ever ran errands by bus in a city like GP was mentioning?

I do, on a weekly basis. Not a big deal. Nor are owned and operated cars necessary or cost-effective for weekly errands.

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