Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

vox.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 243 posts

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#191

Post by briandear »

ethanbond wrote: post #158
superuser2 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the fiscal reality in grinding a city's economic activity to a halt because people can't get anywhere?

Cities can, have, and do function with fewer cars than most American cities. Reducing parking is the fairest way to reduce the usage and eventually necessity of cars. And again, it's far more realistic than hoping that a transit authority is going to find a buried treasure chest to invest in infrastructure while the public is investing more and more into cars.

Let's eliminate cars. How does one transport a week's worth of groceries for a family of 5 on public transport? Transportation is more than moving a person from A to B.

If you want a real solution, provide tax incentives for companies to work remotely. If you eliminate commuters in those types of jobs that can work remotely, you solve almost all traffic problems.

Does an insurance salesman really need to travel to an office? 90% of that work is on the phone already and the other 10% could be replaced with video conferencing. I don't need to touch my salesman, I just need to hear what he's saying and read contracts. Unless your job involves handling physical objects, there is zero reason for a commute.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#192

Post by robk »

WalterBright wrote: post #182
maxsilver wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). And you have the experience of using transit on what's generally considered a Top-5 system nationally! The transit experience elsewhere is often significantly worse than yours. We have "urbanists" here…

I spent a week in Berlin recently. The transit system is so good I had no desire to use a car, and I traveled around the city to see the sights.

Unless you're trying to go somewhere important like say TXL airport. Sorry! That'll take an hour since you have to go train to train to bus!

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#193

Post by praptak »

It's a verbatim application of one of the original Christopher Alexander's architectural and urban design patterns. "49. Looped local roads" is the pattern being applied here. Alexander even mentions that a grid can be modified to create the loops although without explicitly mentioning the superblock idea.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#194

Post by CalRobert »

superuser2 wrote: post #102

I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. Growing up in the suburbs without a car, I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). I'm on the opposite corner of the neighborhood from the business districts, so a little errand like CVS or the grocery store is around half an hour by foot each…

It sounds like your neighborhood is not particularly walkable. Ideally groceries are under a 10 minute walk.

It varies depending on your level of fitness and the local infrastructure, but a bicycle also does wonders to shorten journeys of a few miles.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#195

Post by CalRobert »

ethanbond wrote: post #109
superuser2 wrote: post #102

I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. Growing up in the suburbs without a car, I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). I'm on the opposite corner of the neighborhood from the business districts, so a little errand like CVS or the grocery store is around half an hour by foot each…

If you take cars off the roads, people will rebuild (well, reorganize) their cities to account for it. Public transit obviously needs to be better pretty much everywhere in the US, but people also don't want to pay to make it better. I'm a proponent of simply wiping out parking in most areas. That will incentivize people not to drive, therefore to walk/transit, therefore to value the transit systems and the design of…

Too many people fail to realize that the parking we have now is largely due to developers being forced to add it by law, and not because the market demanded it. Your parking spot can add 30-50k to the cost of a unit. That really stings if you're told you have to have "free" parking in your apartment, when it really just means higher rents.

Some good reading on the matter: http://www.portlandoregon.gov/bps/article/420062

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#196

Post by majewsky »

WalterBright wrote: post #182
maxsilver wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). And you have the experience of using transit on what's generally considered a Top-5 system nationally! The transit experience elsewhere is often significantly worse than yours. We have "urbanists" here…

I spent a week in Berlin recently. The transit system is so good I had no desire to use a car, and I traveled around the city to see the sights.

And it should be noted that Berlin is ridiculed in Germany for its horribly broken S-Bahn service. A few years ago, the Federal Railway Authority had to lay up about 3/4 of their trains because they were vastly underserviced. The operator then truncated many of the lines to have enough rolling stock available for servicing the remaining parts. These changes persist until today. (For example, I remember when the S3 used to run until Westkreuz.)

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#197

Post by majewsky »

briandear wrote: post #191
ethanbond wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities can, have, and do function with fewer cars than most American cities. Reducing parking is the fairest way to reduce the usage and eventually necessity of cars. And again, it's far more realistic than hoping that a transit authority is going to find a buried treasure chest to invest in infrastructure while the public is investing more and more into cars.

Let's eliminate cars. How does one transport a week's worth of groceries for a family of 5 on public transport? Transportation is more than moving a person from A to B. If you want a real solution, provide tax incentives for companies to work remotely. If you eliminate commuters in those types of jobs that can work remotely, you solve almost all traffic problems. Does an insurance salesman really need to travel to an…

> How does one transport a week's worth of groceries for a family of 5 on public transport?

Carsharing. Or a delivery service, which some supermarkets now offer already.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#198

Post by _ph_ »

superuser2 wrote: post #102

I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. Growing up in the suburbs without a car, I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). I'm on the opposite corner of the neighborhood from the business districts, so a little errand like CVS or the grocery store is around half an hour by foot each…

In your cities case, the problem starts by having separate residential/business districts. In traditional, less car centered cities, those would be mixed. Here in Europe it is quite common in the cities to have shops on the ground floor of most buildings and residential use above. This means you are never very far from the shops.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#199

Post by majewsky »

serge2k wrote: post #153
ethanbond wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it controls infinite amounts of money? As I've said in other comments, I'm all for investing heavily in transit infrastructure. If you want a solution that totally ignores the fiscal reality of the world, then yes, I agree, dumping massive amounts of money into public transit would be part of it.

Hardcore anti-car people don't live in reality.

Well, I'm a hardcore anti-car person, and I'm coming by just fine. I need a car about once or twice per year, when I'm moving furniture or something. Everything else can be had by public transit.

I'm well aware that other people need cars, but I'm concerned that there is one group of people that get the benefits of cars (people enjoying the calmness of their suburb which then commute into the city for work) and another group of people which gets all the costs dumped on them (people living in cities who have to live with the noise and air pollution and missing space for pedestrians).

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#200

Post by [deleted] »

WalterBright wrote: post #182
maxsilver wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). And you have the experience of using transit on what's generally considered a Top-5 system nationally! The transit experience elsewhere is often significantly worse than yours. We have "urbanists" here…

I spent a week in Berlin recently. The transit system is so good I had no desire to use a car, and I traveled around the city to see the sights.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN