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IBM Watson correctly diagnoses a form of leukemia

siliconangle.com

41–50 of 80 posts

Re: IBM Watson correctly diagnoses a form of leukemia

#41
post #20

It is funny that so many are quick to dismiss this because it is IBM, so "it must be just PR" (saw a few comments here). If Google did this or Elon Musk, everyone would be singing praises and musing about a better, brighter future. Which is funny because it is Google / Facebook / Microsoft which collect and hold everyone's personal details and data. For better or for worse, IBM never seemed to have gotten into that b…

Welcome to HN, if anything is not from a flashy company within farting distance of the bay area, it is uncool and fuddy-duddy.

Re: IBM Watson correctly diagnoses a form of leukemia

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even remotely true. The Quantum Fund by Soros and others, returned upwards of 30% per year for over three decades. Steve Cohen averaged near 30% annual returns for two decades. Buffett's investing track record is similarly off the charts. And lastly, a monkey couldn't do what John Paulson (or Burry and Eisman) did with the 'greatest trade ever,' producing a radical outcome from an extremely intricate conce…

30% returns per year for over three decades? Impressive. I wonder how much of that was attributed to insider information.

How is this down voted? Steve Cohen is practically synonymous with insider trading in the modern era.

Re: IBM Watson correctly diagnoses a form of leukemia

#43
post #20

It is funny that so many are quick to dismiss this because it is IBM, so "it must be just PR" (saw a few comments here). If Google did this or Elon Musk, everyone would be singing praises and musing about a better, brighter future. Which is funny because it is Google / Facebook / Microsoft which collect and hold everyone's personal details and data. For better or for worse, IBM never seemed to have gotten into that b…

My question is if people don't believe this Watson thing any more, why don't don't they just prove that it exists.

Re: IBM Watson correctly diagnoses a form of leukemia

#44
post #6
post #2

I can't get past the adblocker spam, but I'm going to guess this woman had APL (acute promyelocytic leukemia, caused almost exclusively by a very specific chromosomal translocation) and the doctors didn't think to look for Auer rods and thus did not try FISHing for the translocation. APL is deadly (5% survival) if treated incorrectly but curable (95%) if treated correctly. However, something or other about that diffe…

It would definitely be impressive, but it doesn't mean much without knowing how many times it mis-diagnosed. IBM is very good at PR and Watson is milked for every little bit so I'm always a bit suspicious about it in triumphant announcements like these. After all, winning the lottery is a lot less impressive if you've bought a few million tickets and this article says absolutely nothing about any kind of controls or…

> After all, winning the lottery is a lot less impressive if you've bought a few million tickets

I don't know, I'd still be impressed, wouldn't you? Buying a few million lottery tickets is impressive by itself, both logistically and financially. And even still, odds. It's a lot of risk for anybody to dangle.

Shit, buying every ticket is even more impressive. (I grant your point, you just posed a funny metaphor as comparison.)

Re: IBM Watson correctly diagnoses a form of leukemia

#45
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to play devil's advocate, if all the tickets are free, and the attending gets to ignore all the ones that don't win, that could be useful. FWIW, here's Lukas' writeup of his experience. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4850894/

> if all the tickets are free They're definitely not free; doctors have to evaluate what Watson says, and if Watson is wrong a significant fraction of the time, then doctors will spend a lot of time and energy barking up the wrong tree.

Eh, it's a tool. Some are useful, some less so. I imagine this would be a tier two kind of thing. It's an unusual case, what suggestions does the robot have? Maybe something obscure and easy to forget.

Re: IBM Watson correctly diagnoses a form of leukemia

#46
post #20

It is funny that so many are quick to dismiss this because it is IBM, so "it must be just PR" (saw a few comments here). If Google did this or Elon Musk, everyone would be singing praises and musing about a better, brighter future. Which is funny because it is Google / Facebook / Microsoft which collect and hold everyone's personal details and data. For better or for worse, IBM never seemed to have gotten into that b…

I think you are incorrect and the same cynicism would hold true if RMS and Linus themselves wrote the software. The frustration with this claim is that it's missing a lot of data and it's a claim without a lot of rather important backstory.

- Why was Watson being used for this? (That is, whose idea, whose plan, whose test) - How many times was Watson wrong? (many others have asked this within the comments) - Is there a statistical significance to Watson's diagnosis? - How did Watson narrow it down? That is, did it provide a single conclusion of "it must be this form of leukemia" or was it just the most heavily weighted of several options?

The original ad-walled article from NDTV doesn't add a lot of information either on the specifics, though at least the siliconangle article is correction pointing out the limitations on this (needed a huge DNA repository to work with that would expose a lot of extremely private data, probably wouldn't work well for rarer ailments due to lack of data and inability to understand what it's actually looking at).

It is very good and I am happy that the lady was diagnosed correctly and promptly by Watson, and I do think this is important as something like Watson can cut down immensely on the grunt work that a lot of doctors go through. Already most jump on terminals in the patient room and pull up the relevant information from the hospital's internal libraries, so this just seems like the next natural step for modern healthcare; speed up those libraries.

But the cynicism comes from the lack of information, with how news like this gets portrayed (truthfully, I must credit to SiliconAngle for having a much more reserved approach to the article than the source they relied on), and IBM has been touting Watson as a miracle machine before, and they're certainly not curbing outrageous claims made by less careful publications and journalists.

That is the source of cynicism, and I really do think you'd find it as a result of just about any announcement like this from any person.

Re: IBM Watson correctly diagnoses a form of leukemia

#47
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not cynical if you've actually had any dealings with IBM and Watson. Edit: And when the hell did cynical become a bad word in silicon valley? I've had a number of posters on here respond to things "oh, stop being cynical!" as if that was some kind of contribution... I've got a word for people who are cynical. Decent scientists. Feynman would be rolling over in his grave...

There's a difference between cynical and skeptical, from google: "A skeptic doesn't believe anything without strong reasons, which is why it is also associated with doubt, especially when something hasn't been experienced yet. Cynicism is believing the worst of something or someone. It has nothing to do with evidence. It is an outlook on life."

If cynicism is believing the worst in something or someone, then believing that this article is just PR is by definition not cynical, since it is not the worst thing one could believe.

Re: IBM Watson correctly diagnoses a form of leukemia

#48
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between cynical and skeptical, from google: "A skeptic doesn't believe anything without strong reasons, which is why it is also associated with doubt, especially when something hasn't been experienced yet. Cynicism is believing the worst of something or someone. It has nothing to do with evidence. It is an outlook on life."

If cynicism is believing the worst in something or someone, then believing that this article is just PR is by definition not cynical, since it is not the worst thing one could believe.

You're replying to the wrong post I think. I was just correcting the misuse of the word cynicism, nothing else.

Re: IBM Watson correctly diagnoses a form of leukemia

#49
post #2

I can't get past the adblocker spam, but I'm going to guess this woman had APL (acute promyelocytic leukemia, caused almost exclusively by a very specific chromosomal translocation) and the doctors didn't think to look for Auer rods and thus did not try FISHing for the translocation. APL is deadly (5% survival) if treated incorrectly but curable (95%) if treated correctly. However, something or other about that diffe…

I suggest NoScript. All anti-adblock spam and paywalls are javascript.

Re: IBM Watson correctly diagnoses a form of leukemia

#50
post #20

It is funny that so many are quick to dismiss this because it is IBM, so "it must be just PR" (saw a few comments here). If Google did this or Elon Musk, everyone would be singing praises and musing about a better, brighter future. Which is funny because it is Google / Facebook / Microsoft which collect and hold everyone's personal details and data. For better or for worse, IBM never seemed to have gotten into that b…

Google has a specific division that is looking into life sciences and health care. Recently they made deal with British health service nhs for processing anonymised eye scans of millions of people using deepmind so that they are better able to detect degenerative blindness.
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