Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#121

Post by scalesolved » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 9:36 PM UTC

faragon wrote: post #99

jacquesm wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked Barcelona was still in Spain. If they object I'm fine with it but I'm not going to 'tune' my comments to whether or not someone may or may not be offended when for the rest of the world 'Catalonia' is solidly part of Spain. Frisians are Dutch too, and Welsh are British and so on. All of the above are also Europeans...

Most people in Barcelona are not "pro-independence". Most "pro-independence" people come from rural areas, or small cities. Industrial and touristic areas of Catalan region of Spain are not nationalists/separatists. That sentiment comes much like in other regions, because of the crisis. P.S. I live in Barcelona.

Slightly different personal data point from my guiri perspective living in Barcelona I'd say that of the 12-15 Catalans that I know well the clear majority are pro independence.

Seems polls have between 60-80% of Catalans want independence : http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/poll-finds-th...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29982960

As the urban region of Barcelona has around 5 million residents (7.5 million in Catalunya) the urban areas do have a lot of support for the movement.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#122

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 9:39 PM UTC

ethanbond wrote: post #118

superuser2 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a LONG time to build out serious transit infrastructure. Like 30 years (see Seattle's recent ballot initiative). You're asking basically an entire generation to have shitty mobility for most of their working lives, so that they will vote to build trains for their children. More likely they will just leave the cities. Cities do adapt to poor mobility: local businesses get to charge huge markup because they do…

You're asking basically every generation after us to have shitty environmental health and shitty cities for the entirety of their lives. Also, if you need a car to be mobile enough to live your life, you already have shitty mobility. You should have the ability to live your life without having to pay the tens of thousands of dollars that owning a car demands [0]. You could get rid of cars and with all that newly avai…

[deleted]

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#123

Post by slazaro » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 9:40 PM UTC

pmontra wrote: post #90

masklinn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Great idea! The only puzzling point is the 10 km/h limit. In my experience it's almost impossible to go that slow. Are you in europe? Keep in mind most EU drivers drive stick, and most cars in barcelona would be "city" cars, C-segment or below (compact and smaller in US segmentation). Depends on the exact car of course, but in my experience 1st and slow 2nd should be well into that range, and trivial to achieve on…

Yes, I'm in Europe. Try driving at 10 km/h for 100 m. It's 2.7 m/s, an exercise of patience. I'd prefer a higher limit and be reasonable. I go even slower and stop if the road is full of pedestrians, all of us had to do that sometimes. But 10 km/h with an empty street? 20 km/h would do.

The point is that you should only drive on these streets at the beginning and end of your trip, so it would be like slow 100m at the start, then a longer trip, then slow 100m. I don't think that's a problem.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#124

Post by oblio » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 9:54 PM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #102

I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. Growing up in the suburbs without a car, I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). I'm on the opposite corner of the neighborhood from the business districts, so a little errand like CVS or the grocery store is around half an hour by foot each…

Bike + basket wouldn't have helped? :(

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#125

Post by sogen » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 10:01 PM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #102

I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. Growing up in the suburbs without a car, I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). I'm on the opposite corner of the neighborhood from the business districts, so a little errand like CVS or the grocery store is around half an hour by foot each…

Odd, I walk a lot, I live near 4 drugstores, 4 supermarkets, about five 7-11, many restaurants, big stores like Macy's etc, all by walking 10 minutes at most.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#126

Post by hellsch » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 10:02 PM UTC

I live in Barcelona and most of the people are not happy. A simple math problem for you in order to understand why. Currently with a top speed of 50kmh the average speed is 36kmh. Now reducing the top speed partially to 10kmh how fast will be the average? Well, it can be argued that the traffic will shift to the faster streets on the periphery of the super blocks, so this streets will have to grow in order to be able to handle the traffic, this can be challenging in terms of space.

But what really pisses my catalan friends and colleagues is that the superblock will come first and accordingly the tweaks on the periphery. This will cause homongous traffic jams because of the construction works on the periphery of the superblocks.

So this is aimless activism, those who know traffic and transportation in Barcelona will agree that smart traffic lights will make a huge impact on car pollution. Together with Park and ride; offering a fast transportation to enter and leave the city would be amazing.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#127

Post by beloch » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 10:02 PM UTC

This article covers things from a pedestrian's perspective, but it honestly looks like there may be benefits for drivers in this system too.

For one, this plan immediately halves the number of busy intersections along a given stretch of road (and reduces them to a third if multiple superblocks are built adjacent to one another). Yes, no intersections have been physically removed, but the number of vehicles using those intersections is drastically reduced. Traffic signals at those intersections can be optimized to reduce stop frequency/duration for traffic staying on the road meant for cars.

If you live in one of these superblocks, the last kilometer to your house may be slower but, if there are enough other superblocks along your path, your overall trip time may actually be reduced. Fewer stops also mean reduced fuel consumption and lower emissions.

Of course, a big issue is that some streets will now be carrying twice the traffic they were previously built for. Even if that traffic flows better, there may be problems. Making street-side parking on these streets illegal could increase the effective number of lanes available to traffic. After all, street-side parking should be plentiful inside the blocks, and the eventual plan is to build off-street garages.

I'm not convinced superblocks will be bad for drivers.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#128

Post by jacalata » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 10:16 PM UTC

hellsch wrote: post #126

I live in Barcelona and most of the people are not happy. A simple math problem for you in order to understand why. Currently with a top speed of 50kmh the average speed is 36kmh. Now reducing the top speed partially to 10kmh how fast will be the average? Well, it can be argued that the traffic will shift to the faster streets on the periphery of the super blocks, so this streets will have to grow in order to be able…

What construction is needed to create the superblocks? The first steps should literally just be road signs and speed enforcement.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#129

Post by gkya » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 10:21 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #84

gkya wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can easily see the difference, but I am no lord or duke, and thus not be bothered if sometimes my voyage is a bit uncomfortable. It's (edit: I meant public transport in general) cheaper, better for the environment, more social, certainly more secure than a random multinational company, quicker than any other option besides the motorbike, and helps free the roads for emergencies like ambulances carrying ill or wound…

> I really want to add that I detest uber and the like for attempting to kill local businesses replacing them with lower quality cheaper services. Uber in no way replaces local businesses with lower quality cheaper services. In most markets it is replacing corrupt monopolies with a higher quality product. In the other markets it is just a higher quality product.

Please give examples.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#130

Post by cagataygurturk » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 10:21 PM UTC

Another Ada Colau BS. Barcelona might be very popular, but it is a village, nearly dead out of summer. Cars are already 2nd class citizens, there is no traffic except taxis and motorcycles. Now they are just closing the traffic to some streets, it is not a futuristic super intelligent plan, nothing special. Nobody was using car and everybody was walking everywhere and the same situation will continue, our lives won't change at all. Don't threat this plan like the biggest urbanistic invention of the century. It is nothing more than internal municipal legislation change. It is not making the half of the NYC pedesterian area.