Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#21

Post by ghaff » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:02 PM UTC

drcross wrote: post #17

The elephant in the room is that personal mobility is going to undergo a complete redesign in the coming decade as vehicles drive for themselves. This will bring about a complete change in usage patterns so doing anything in this space is pre-mature and we should hold off to see how society's requirements change. For example maybe on street parking will become a thing of the past as your self driving Uber goes on it'…

Nothing like that is going to change in the next decade or the decade after that. And very possibly not a few decades even further in the future.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#22

Post by ghaff » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:05 PM UTC

vosper wrote: post #18

honkhonkpants wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually a big problem in the USA. Everyone has a powerful car with automatic transmission. On level ground these will eventually accelerate to 15MPH unless the driver uses the brake. A manual transmission, or electric drive, is ever so much more civilized.

I'd guess that people in the US spend a lot more time on freeways than Europeans do. A powerful engine is good for that (quietness, ability to overtake / maintain speed on hills). Automatic transmissions are great for freeways because they allow for cruise control. I have a pet theory that if everyone on the freeway used cruise control all the time the freeway would be safer and less stressful. That's one of the reas…

You can have cruise control on a stick. I rarely use it but my manual car has it. On most (barring long climbs and descents) freeways with free moving traffic, you pretty much put the stick in top gear and leave it. The big win with an automatic is stop and go traffic.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#23

Post by mtmail » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:05 PM UTC

pmontra wrote: post #2

Great idea! The only puzzling point is the 10 km/h limit. In my experience it's almost impossible to go that slow. Better to set the limit at 20 km/h and cope with the conditions of the road. It will be slow for bicycles too. It forces bikers to go on the roads for cars or be very patient. Maybe it's the intended effect but I don't approve it.

I think they're referring to a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_street. In Germany that's 6 km/h, walking speed. You don't hit the accelerator at all, if you drive stick shift and use the 2nd gear (e.g. when police stops you) you were already too fast. They teach that in driving school because it's so weird to drive that slow.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#24

Post by vosper » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:08 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #22

vosper wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd guess that people in the US spend a lot more time on freeways than Europeans do. A powerful engine is good for that (quietness, ability to overtake / maintain speed on hills). Automatic transmissions are great for freeways because they allow for cruise control. I have a pet theory that if everyone on the freeway used cruise control all the time the freeway would be safer and less stressful. That's one of the reas…

You can have cruise control on a stick. I rarely use it but my manual car has it. On most (barring long climbs and descents) freeways with free moving traffic, you pretty much put the stick in top gear and leave it. The big win with an automatic is stop and go traffic.

Are there limitations to cruise control on manual? Presumably if it's a true manual gearbox the car can't shift automatically, so if you were to encounter an upward slope that required a down-shift what happens?

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#25

Post by _ZeD_ » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:10 PM UTC

paulsutter wrote: post #14

pmontra wrote: post #2

Great idea! The only puzzling point is the 10 km/h limit. In my experience it's almost impossible to go that slow. Better to set the limit at 20 km/h and cope with the conditions of the road. It will be slow for bicycles too. It forces bikers to go on the roads for cars or be very patient. Maybe it's the intended effect but I don't approve it.

It's a US publication, so they mention 10mph at first, later explaining that the actual limit it 20kph (12mph).

nope, it's a two phases plan: they will begin with 20Km/h in phase one and then to 10Km/h in phase two

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#26

Post by detaro » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:12 PM UTC

vosper wrote: post #24

ghaff wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have cruise control on a stick. I rarely use it but my manual car has it. On most (barring long climbs and descents) freeways with free moving traffic, you pretty much put the stick in top gear and leave it. The big win with an automatic is stop and go traffic.

Are there limitations to cruise control on manual? Presumably if it's a true manual gearbox the car can't shift automatically, so if you were to encounter an upward slope that required a down-shift what happens?

Yes, it is limited to what the car can do in that gear, so you have to downshift manually (and re-set the cruise control).

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#27

Post by Retric » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:20 PM UTC

pmontra wrote: post #2

Great idea! The only puzzling point is the 10 km/h limit. In my experience it's almost impossible to go that slow. Better to set the limit at 20 km/h and cope with the conditions of the road. It will be slow for bicycles too. It forces bikers to go on the roads for cars or be very patient. Maybe it's the intended effect but I don't approve it.

IMO, they are better off with raised or lowered pedestrian walkways vs removing streets, but this is more about aesthetics than practicality. As to bikes, they should be on the road anyway.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#28

Post by icebraining » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:22 PM UTC

transfire wrote: post #9

On some superblocks it seems to me they could connect the corner blocks instead of the center block as the one way lanes. This would leave the old middle roads free of cars altogether giving pedestrians more space and maybe let the cars go a little faster (10 km/h is rather unbearably slow slow).

We're only talking about 200m stretches, so even at 10km/h it's only a couple of minutes max.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#29

Post by sharpercoder » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:23 PM UTC

The Netherlands has municipal areas designed mostly like the same principle. Low-speed areas with high houding densities are connected using main roads. A very nice example of this concept is shown in Houten, near Utrecht. A roundabout road over the whole area connects to living areas inwards.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#30

Post by vertex-four » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:26 PM UTC

_ZeD_ wrote: post #25

paulsutter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a US publication, so they mention 10mph at first, later explaining that the actual limit it 20kph (12mph).

nope, it's a two phases plan: they will begin with 20Km/h in phase one and then to 10Km/h in phase two

For the record, buses in Glasgow have to travel at 10mph to enter the bus station, and do so with ease. I've been in a car driving at 5mph into a campsite.

If you're driving a car beefy enough that it's impossible to do that, in the middle of a city where people respect pedestrian life... maybe it's a better idea to park-and-ride instead?