Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#11

Post by honkhonkpants » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 2:38 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #4

pmontra wrote: post #2

Great idea! The only puzzling point is the 10 km/h limit. In my experience it's almost impossible to go that slow. Better to set the limit at 20 km/h and cope with the conditions of the road. It will be slow for bicycles too. It forces bikers to go on the roads for cars or be very patient. Maybe it's the intended effect but I don't approve it.

> Great idea! The only puzzling point is the 10 km/h limit. In my experience it's almost impossible to go that slow. Are you in europe? Keep in mind most EU drivers drive stick, and most cars in barcelona would be "city" cars, C-segment or below (compact and smaller in US segmentation). Depends on the exact car of course, but in my experience 1st and slow 2nd should be well into that range, and trivial to achieve on…

This is actually a big problem in the USA. Everyone has a powerful car with automatic transmission. On level ground these will eventually accelerate to 15MPH unless the driver uses the brake. A manual transmission, or electric drive, is ever so much more civilized.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#12

Post by Artlav » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 2:40 PM UTC

Hm, i find this kinda hard to port over to a typical chaotic/radial european city.

In Moscow, for example, there are wide radial and circular roads, from which branches of small roads diffuse into the meat of the city under pretty much every angle.

Any attempts to rope "superblocks" off would likely collapse the traffic completely - there aren't any alternative roads like a grid would have.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#13

Post by jurip » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

bb101 wrote: post #7

Very interesting idea. However, losing two through-streets out of every three will triple the traffic on the remaining through-street. The people living on the interior of the superblocks will enjoy a more peaceful car-free environment, but the people overlooking the through-streets will experience more noise, pollution and congestion. I wonder how Barcelona plans to compensate the residents of through-streets for th…

I'd expect the total automobile traffic to be reduced, rather than all of it concentrating on the through streets. Making driving less convenient will push people who don't have to drive to leave their cars at home and go with public transport, bike or foot instead.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#14

Post by paulsutter » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 2:44 PM UTC

pmontra wrote: post #2

Great idea! The only puzzling point is the 10 km/h limit. In my experience it's almost impossible to go that slow. Better to set the limit at 20 km/h and cope with the conditions of the road. It will be slow for bicycles too. It forces bikers to go on the roads for cars or be very patient. Maybe it's the intended effect but I don't approve it.

It's a US publication, so they mention 10mph at first, later explaining that the actual limit it 20kph (12mph).

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#15

Post by cesis » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 2:45 PM UTC

bb101 wrote: post #7

Very interesting idea. However, losing two through-streets out of every three will triple the traffic on the remaining through-street. The people living on the interior of the superblocks will enjoy a more peaceful car-free environment, but the people overlooking the through-streets will experience more noise, pollution and congestion. I wonder how Barcelona plans to compensate the residents of through-streets for th…

I also would like to see how it turns out. Some people might switch to bicycling or walking. It might even decrease car ownership numbers.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#16

Post by andrepd » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 2:58 PM UTC

Artlav wrote: post #12

Hm, i find this kinda hard to port over to a typical chaotic/radial european city. In Moscow, for example, there are wide radial and circular roads, from which branches of small roads diffuse into the meat of the city under pretty much every angle. Any attempts to rope "superblocks" off would likely collapse the traffic completely - there aren't any alternative roads like a grid would have.

I think the idea is to apply this to grid based cities, like the kind predominant in the US, rather than to "chaotic" city plans, like in most old European cities. Barcelona is in many ways atypical of large European historic cities, in that regard.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#17

Post by drcross » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 2:59 PM UTC

The elephant in the room is that personal mobility is going to undergo a complete redesign in the coming decade as vehicles drive for themselves. This will bring about a complete change in usage patterns so doing anything in this space is pre-mature and we should hold off to see how society's requirements change. For example maybe on street parking will become a thing of the past as your self driving Uber goes on it's way to pick up new passengers after it drops you off. Perhaps we'll have more drop-off points like at an airport instead.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#18

Post by vosper » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:01 PM UTC

honkhonkpants wrote: post #11

masklinn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Great idea! The only puzzling point is the 10 km/h limit. In my experience it's almost impossible to go that slow. Are you in europe? Keep in mind most EU drivers drive stick, and most cars in barcelona would be "city" cars, C-segment or below (compact and smaller in US segmentation). Depends on the exact car of course, but in my experience 1st and slow 2nd should be well into that range, and trivial to achieve on…

This is actually a big problem in the USA. Everyone has a powerful car with automatic transmission. On level ground these will eventually accelerate to 15MPH unless the driver uses the brake. A manual transmission, or electric drive, is ever so much more civilized.

I'd guess that people in the US spend a lot more time on freeways than Europeans do. A powerful engine is good for that (quietness, ability to overtake / maintain speed on hills). Automatic transmissions are great for freeways because they allow for cruise control. I have a pet theory that if everyone on the freeway used cruise control all the time the freeway would be safer and less stressful. That's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to self-driving cars :)

Edit: I would imagine it would be straightforward to restrict the max speed that a vehicle can reach without the drivers foot on the pedal (there may even already be such a rule). The ability to regulate the speed already exists within the cruise control system.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#19

Post by xefer » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:01 PM UTC

pmontra wrote: post #2

Great idea! The only puzzling point is the 10 km/h limit. In my experience it's almost impossible to go that slow. Better to set the limit at 20 km/h and cope with the conditions of the road. It will be slow for bicycles too. It forces bikers to go on the roads for cars or be very patient. Maybe it's the intended effect but I don't approve it.

One of the biggest problems with cars in the city is that they are ridiculously overengineered for that environment.

It feels too slow because all that power and speed gives the illusion of control. If it were possible to electronically put cars into "city mode" (low power, acceleration and speed), say, based on GPS coordinates and municipal laws, they could share the public travel ways with more equanimity with other forms of transportation.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#20

Post by andrepd » Sat, Aug 06, 2016, 3:02 PM UTC

honkhonkpants wrote: post #11

masklinn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Great idea! The only puzzling point is the 10 km/h limit. In my experience it's almost impossible to go that slow. Are you in europe? Keep in mind most EU drivers drive stick, and most cars in barcelona would be "city" cars, C-segment or below (compact and smaller in US segmentation). Depends on the exact car of course, but in my experience 1st and slow 2nd should be well into that range, and trivial to achieve on…

This is actually a big problem in the USA. Everyone has a powerful car with automatic transmission. On level ground these will eventually accelerate to 15MPH unless the driver uses the brake. A manual transmission, or electric drive, is ever so much more civilized.

Huh. I've never thought of that. Lol at that last sentence though :).