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Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

psychology.stanford.edu

141–150 of 166 posts

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#141
One problem is that the children's IQs weren't considered in relation to the task at hand. A more useful study would have included how praise for ability and effort effect children in separate classes of intelligence. To be remotely helpful, at the very least, we should know the range and mean IQ of the children in the study.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#142
post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

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Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#143
post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

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Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#144

I was not a special snowflake and I was not praised for anything ever by my parents. My exam results were below average and every school report was along the lines of must try harder. Recently I did think about this and whether I developed a co-dependent aspect to my personality along the way. Co-dependency does hold people back in life and I feel that a little bit of praise along the way would not have gone amiss. I…

I think I was one of the first of my peers to get a job at 15. It's not that my parents didn't pay for things for me, just that they had their ideas of what they wanted me to do, and my ideas of what I wanted to do were different.

I haven't been unemployed for a significant time since, I've been out of work 2 months now (I start my new job in a week) and it's driven me up the wall.

Most people I knew in high school never had a job, and I knew a few people at university who managed to go through their entire degree without a job as well. These people have never worked a day in their life, they're going to have massive issues when it comes to actually finding a career. I'd never hire someone who's 20-something with no job experience.

Upon saying that, along the way I've picked up an attitude of work harder, not smarter, which I've been struggling to reverse. I worked for half a decade in kitchens, where that was the prevailing attitude, nobody would spend 5 minutes to save them 20 minutes. Chefs aren't known for being intellectuals and good managers.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The developmental advice I've heard is that you should praise the act, not the attribute. That is, if they do something clever, you praise the clever thing they did, not the fact that they're clever. I know that probably sounds like splitting hairs, but kids and adults have at least as many issues communicating as adults and other adults have.

It's not splitting hairs at all. "That's so clever" means "do something like that again to get praise". "You're so clever" means "you don't need to do any more work to be praised".

As adults we can often be imprecise in our praise of others and expect them to just understand that we meant it as a complement.

If you tell an adult 'wow you really are clever' it usually means that you appreciate what they did for you or the team and you're trying to say thank you too.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#146
Of course it can.

What does an intelligent kid do? Find the easiest way to do a task or question whether the task is necessary at all. That's just humans conserving energy. Which is smart. This is not the hard part for them, they excel at this.

Effort is consciously fighting against the drive to stop working. THIS is the hard part. Above average children never have to learn this, because they get through school and life that easy. It's only when they are forced to leave their comfort zone, when problems show up.

Intelligent Children who aren't kept or lead out of this effort-avoidance (which is a kind of motivation as well: the motivation to avoid effort in order to conserve energy) also tend to get worse grades after they got good ones.

Because praising them signals them that they actually overachieved and can therefore put even less energy into accomplishing a task.

So the way to go is praising them for doing something that they didn't want to do or for repeating effort.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#147

Praise intelligence -> makes them give up easier. Praise hard work -> could be a subtle attempt at manipulation. Maybe instead we should ask them what they want to do, and support their creative activities.

What a child wants to do is what a child wants to do right now. If you ask the same question a few minutes later, you could get an entirely different answer.

As adults who have lived through being children, a surprising percentage of us actually do know better than a small child what's best for the small child for a surprising percentage of their lives.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#148
post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

The lesson they taught you is politically palatable to a lot of people, but it strikes me as gross. That it was the most valuable thing you learned in that school underlies just how pointless the entire exercise really was.

Not sure. The lesson for others that was being promoted by his behaviour was certainly bad: "That you do not need to work hard, you only need to be gifted and smart and you can go by." Now, it's not really his fault that he is not being challenged, so the school messed up, at least partly, here. They fixed the problem for the other students, but not for him. I think the point made in another comment, that he should have been made to attend classes, but given actual challenging work that matched his abilities, is correct.

At school I was probably similar, and thinking back basically an awful child, for much of the same reasons. But at least in some of my classes (maths, for example) they recognised that just following the standard course at the same pace as everyone else was a waste of my time, and allowed me to work on the course material for the next years classes, which was at least a little more interesting, and some kind of extra-curricular maths problems as part of an inter-school competition that were much more interesting.

OT - the maths problems didn't always hold my interest, and when I couldn't be bothered doing the actual work of proving something rigorously, I instead wrote a brute-force solver in PASCAL, that produced the correct solution. Then I had the challenging task of persuading people that this was actually an acceptable method of solving a problem. I can't remember if I succeeded, but I think I gave the example of the computer proof of the four-colour theorem that I had read about in New Scientist.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#149
post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

The point of schools is not to teach you how to pass tests. It's to give you knowledge that sticks for life. Studying intensively for two weeks will let you (or mostly anybody, really) pass a test, but usually you will have forgotten most of it after a year. Attending class will give you delayed repetition of the material over a long period of time, which will help you remember.
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