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The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

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Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#81

Post by int_19h »

__jal wrote: post #36
vram22 wrote: post #21

Microsoft has actually been doing Unix related stuff from way back - a fact that might not be known to some. Xenix, then SFU (Services For Unix - for interop - on Win NT or 2K), plus they had (part of?) a POSIX subsystem around then or earlier- I used it a bit for C utility dev work on WinNT), etc.

They didn't build SFU - the first thing called that was a rebranded MKS toolkit, from Mortice Kern Systems (later, I think, bought by somebody else). The second thing called named SFU was a different POSIX layer built by some company I can't remember the name of. Remembering having to use it (the MKS version) to port some Solaris software, I recall my team mates having an alternate expansion for the acronym that isn'…

The other thing was called Interix before it was bought by Microsoft and became SFU 3.0.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#82

Post by Amezarak »

criddell wrote: post #75
Amezarak wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is really unfortunate. I can't blame Microsoft for it, but the app-gap between WP/WinMo 10 and Android is getting untenable for me. I'm thinking about switching back, not because I think Android is better (I don't think it is at all), but simply because I'm starting to feel left out when all my family and friends are using, e.g., SnapChat to keep in touch and I...can't. It particularly riles me up that there we…

Can you explain what it is about the operating system that makes a big difference? I have a mix of Android and iOS devices and I really don't have a preference. I never sit down with my tablet to use Android, it's to see the Snapchat my daughter sent me or to play Sequence or to check my email. Likewise I'll pick up my iPod touch when I want to listen to a podcast, browse Instagram, or use Find My Friends. There are…

Sure. There are a couple things. Some of them may be be pretty petty, and some of them are something you can get in Android but aren't that way out of the box.

- app organization. One swipe and I'm looking at an alphabetized list of apps I can jump to by letter. This is huge to me, so much easier to find and identify an app versus a 2d grid dominated by icons.

- live tiles. My email tile shows me unread emails, photo tile shows pictures, calendar shows appointments, etc. Small thing but makes life a little simpler and makes my home screen look nice.

- settings are organized and laid out in what seems to me to be a much cleaner and logical way. I think this may have regressed some in win 10.

- maps are offline by default. Saves on data and helps out a lot when going through poor signal areas, which I do a lot.

- Cortana is super awesome, ime works better than google now.

- I can deny apps individual permissions.

- OneDrive integration. I didn't use OneDrive prior to buying the phone but since it was auto installed on my win computers i started using it and its very convenient.

A lot of it just all the minor usability and ui struggles just aren't there. To me it's a lot more polished and easy to use. I may have bad taste. :)

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#83

Post by xufi »

jfoutz wrote: post #16
allendoerfer wrote: post #12

I wonder how much further humankind would have progressed by now if "because it can be done" were not such a big motivation for intelligent people. Edit: Since everybody took this post seriously, I will, too: We would be closer to some local maxima, but would have no chance to progress beyond them.

I wonder how much further humankind would have progressed by now if we knew upfront what's useful and didn't have to try a whole bunch of crazy stuff.

Agreed. and so for Windows I've had to deal with the pain of Cyngin and Putty and its bretheren which adds to the list of me trying crazy stuff when certain commands wont work. Then I remember "doh its Windows"

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#84

Post by int_19h »

fapjacks wrote: post #63

Honest question: What's the deal with this stuff? I'm not interested in the reasoning that it's done just because they can do it. I mean... Why not just ... use Linux ? I suspect it's a comfort zone thing, and most people really don't want to move out of their comfort zone (and especially programmers have a hard time admitting this). I understand people developing for the platform, but I don't understand people devel…

Consider people who are developing cross-platform apps that target Windows _and_ Linux. With this thing, you can develop on Windows, immediately build for both (and so e.g. verify that you're not using any VC++-isms in your code), and test both right away. In fact, VS can even debug via gdb these days.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#85

Post by kuschku »

uxp wrote: post #26
kuschku wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it uses Firefox' PDF renderer - they just copied the code into the page itself.

"Copied" is a strange word. https://mozilla.github.io/pdf.js/getting_started/

I try to use "copy" in an inflationary way, to remove the negative stigma associated with it.

Our entire floss community is based on forking an existing project, improving, and sometimes merging again, and the entire history of innovation has been based on this copy-transform-combine cycle, too.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#87

Post by PeterisP »

fapjacks wrote: post #63

Honest question: What's the deal with this stuff? I'm not interested in the reasoning that it's done just because they can do it. I mean... Why not just ... use Linux ? I suspect it's a comfort zone thing, and most people really don't want to move out of their comfort zone (and especially programmers have a hard time admitting this). I understand people developing for the platform, but I don't understand people devel…

I absolutely need full Excel&Word compatibility for collaborating on documents with others so Linux is not an option. Neither LibreOffice or MS Office Online provide appropriate compatibility, editing a complex document made by someone else and sending back to them will not preserve its formatting.

This means either MacOS with the associated hardware lock-in or Windows with all the associated problems in installing/compiling dev/research tools that just work on Linux or Mac.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#88

Post by skybrian »

fapjacks wrote: post #63

Honest question: What's the deal with this stuff? I'm not interested in the reasoning that it's done just because they can do it. I mean... Why not just ... use Linux ? I suspect it's a comfort zone thing, and most people really don't want to move out of their comfort zone (and especially programmers have a hard time admitting this). I understand people developing for the platform, but I don't understand people devel…

If it's at home, maybe for games? It sounds like if you're going from a Mac to Windows 10, you get a better Unix (closer to Linux) and more games. I might actually take them up on that for a home desktop box, if I can figure out what hardware to buy.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#89

Post by rogerbinns »

whyenot wrote: post #60
kragen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, there are a variety of inaccuracies in your short statement. Please carefully read the below so that you can be protected from propagating these errors in the future. · SCO Unix, although it incorporated some Xenix code, was very different from Xenix; it derived a lot from SVR4. · SCO basically went out of business, because their value proposition was "Unix, but on a regular PC so you don't have to buy an expens…

I appreciate your critique, but stand by my original statement. Let me address the items you bring up point by point. Please excuse my brevity. 1. Xenix was based on Bell Labs V7 and then AT&T SVR2, SCO Unix was based on SVR4. Xenix and SCO Unix shared code in addition to that derived from their common ancestry. Claiming that they were "very different" is obviously a matter of opinion. In my opinion, they were pretty…

Regarding #1 that is mashing together two separate products into 1. (I worked for SCO.)

The history is that Microsoft were producing Xenix - a port from AT&T. Eventually they decided to stop doing that work themselves as DOS, OS/2, Lan Manager and similar were of interest. (Note though that they ran their email infrastructure on Xenix - it was part of their operational business.) Xenix was handed over to a father and son company in Santa Cruz. They called the company Santa Cruz Operation so that in phone calls to Microsoft, the Microsoft folks would think SCO was a branch office not a different company.

Xenix was updated, ported etc, eventually being called SCO OpenServer. That "SCO Unix" did not have SVR4 in it. Heck it could barely do multi-processor and similar. In 1995 Novell (owners of the AT&T Unix at that point) then "handed" SVR4 over to SCO, with the result being called SCO UnixWare. That was the SVR4 derivative. SCO did this to get into the enterprise space, and couldn't do the engineering to bring the Xenix derivative there.

Later in the 90s there was a game of musical chairs as Intel announced the Itanium, and all the Risc chip and Unix vendors formed consortiums. SCO was part of one with IBM named Project Monterey. It was supposed to have some Linux compatibility, but as time progressed IBM cared more about Linux (and AIX) while SCO couldn't keep up with the engineering commitments.

In 2000 all the Unix stuff (OpenServer and UnixWare) went to Caldera. Well it would have but the deal was so complicated (it was pseudo licensing with money and royalties going back and forth). Heck Caldera only really wanted OpenServer. The SEC went "huh" a while later, so a new deal happened in 2001. There was also a tech downturn, so a simpler deal was done. All that was left of SCO was Tarantella hence the company rename.

Caldera renamed themselves to The SCO Group a while later. The grounds for suing IBM were around Project Monterey, although as far as I know neither side did all they should have. And then since IBM had gone in on Linux, SCO Group decided to sue claiming IBM had put Unix code into Linux. Novell got involved because the details of "handing" over mattered.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#90

Post by wangchow »

twblalock wrote: post #46
wangchow wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I use the app-gap as a feature. Not having the fluff is great because snapchat is making people illiterate. We went from real words to abbreviations to no words and minimal attention span. On the other hand now that Uber and bank of america have a universal app it feels more complete.

Missing "fluff" is not the problem. The problem is this: When the next killer app comes out, whatever it is, you may want to use it -- but it is very unlikely to be available on Windows Phone.

However, want and need are very different. I may desire an app, but not having it can make me better off. For instance, look here at the selfie deaths:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_selfie-related_injurie...

This may seem ridiculous but that's what these apps are doing to people. :)

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