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The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

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Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#71

Post by JoBrad »

tracker1 wrote: post #48
Analemma_ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will they even try? WSL isn't installed by default, you have to specifically ask for it, and presumably only a small percentage of Windows 10 installs are developers who'll be doing that. I don't know if malware writers will bother with it.

You're right. You currently need to sign up for the insider program, enable it, enable ahead of time updates, and install the feature.

It's part of the AU release, and so you don't have to sign up for the Insider Program anymore.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#72

Post by dragonwriter »

fapjacks wrote: post #63

Honest question: What's the deal with this stuff? I'm not interested in the reasoning that it's done just because they can do it. I mean... Why not just ... use Linux ? I suspect it's a comfort zone thing, and most people really don't want to move out of their comfort zone (and especially programmers have a hard time admitting this). I understand people developing for the platform, but I don't understand people devel…

> What's the deal with this stuff? I'm not interested in the reasoning that it's done just because they can do it. I mean... Why not just ... use Linux?

For a desktop/laptop, particularly in corporate/enterprise environments (but, also, often for solo devs where its also a personal PC) there are lots of reasons you might want to have Windows outside of the actual dev-specific parts of your work. This is an alternative to second computer / dual boot / VM-based solutions to having your Windows and Linuxing it too.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#74

Post by JBiserkov »

sdrinf wrote: post #23
coverband wrote: post #8

I'd love to see a video of the demo session for this; really curious how ProcMon and AV tools will deal with ELF binaries in this release.

Screenshot: http://imgur.com/a/5Fcr9 Short summary: * Ubuntu, and all children apps run under current user's credentials, but are launched under an Lxssmanager servicehost process (as opposed to explorer.exe) * ProcMon can interact (send sigterm / etc to) unix processes; but as shown on htop, unix processes are not aware of windows ones; nor have I found any ways to send signals backwards * API compatibility is excel…

Regarding file watching. Some programs support polling which although less efficient usually is completely adequate for development use cases.

Today the status on this issue changed from 'No status' to 'On the backlog' so it will be fixed someday. https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt-con...

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#75

Post by criddell »

Amezarak wrote: post #29
satysin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and the rumours are that Project Astoria worked too well which scared Microsoft. If Android apps "just worked" on Windows then why would developers bother using their new Universal Windows Platform.

Which is really unfortunate. I can't blame Microsoft for it, but the app-gap between WP/WinMo 10 and Android is getting untenable for me. I'm thinking about switching back, not because I think Android is better (I don't think it is at all), but simply because I'm starting to feel left out when all my family and friends are using, e.g., SnapChat to keep in touch and I...can't. It particularly riles me up that there we…

Can you explain what it is about the operating system that makes a big difference? I have a mix of Android and iOS devices and I really don't have a preference. I never sit down with my tablet to use Android, it's to see the Snapchat my daughter sent me or to play Sequence or to check my email.

Likewise I'll pick up my iPod touch when I want to listen to a podcast, browse Instagram, or use Find My Friends.

There are hardware differences that make me use one device for it's camera or more reliable bluetooth, but I don't really associate that with the operating system.

Do you use a Windows Phone device because of the operating system or because (for example) it has an excellent camera or does something special with your XBox?

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#76

Post by colemickens »

jhoechtl wrote: post #55
wangchow wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I use the app-gap as a feature. Not having the fluff is great because snapchat is making people illiterate. We went from real words to abbreviations to no words and minimal attention span. On the other hand now that Uber and bank of america have a universal app it feels more complete.

Why the downvote? This is a legit and conscious comment

Some person doesn't like Snapchat. Their dislike of Snapchat and inability to install it on their phone due to choice of platform has absolutely nothing to do with, and absolutely no influence on what phones other people buy or what apps they install on it.

I have an Android phone and it doesn't have Snapchat on it. I also have friends with varieties of phones, and Snapchat, and they're very intelligent. It's donwvoted because it's a pointless "get off my lawn comment" that says nothing other than "I look down on all Snapchat users".

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#77

Post by peter303 »

vram22 wrote: post #21

Microsoft has actually been doing Unix related stuff from way back - a fact that might not be known to some. Xenix, then SFU (Services For Unix - for interop - on Win NT or 2K), plus they had (part of?) a POSIX subsystem around then or earlier- I used it a bit for C utility dev work on WinNT), etc.

Xenix-UNIX was way under powered on 16 bit x86s. By the time 32 bit CPUs came along, there were better ports of UNIX like Linux and BSD.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#78

Post by alxlu »

fapjacks wrote: post #63

Honest question: What's the deal with this stuff? I'm not interested in the reasoning that it's done just because they can do it. I mean... Why not just ... use Linux ? I suspect it's a comfort zone thing, and most people really don't want to move out of their comfort zone (and especially programmers have a hard time admitting this). I understand people developing for the platform, but I don't understand people devel…

For me, the Adobe suite is one thing Windows has over Linux. That and easier hardware support. I'm currently running Ubuntu on my desktop and about 1 in every 3 times I suspend the machine, it needs to do a full reboot. Also every time I do a software update, I need to reconfigure my video card.

Currently, I have to switch over to my MacBook Pro to do any work that requires Adobe software, and then back to my Ubuntu machine for development. So if this Windows 10 thing works out, I might consider switching over (although last I used Windows I wasn't a fan of juggling three different shells--four if you count git bash: PowerShell, cmd.exe, and Cygwin).

Otherwise, I might do what I should've done in the first place and ultimately get a new Mac that can support 4k properly--the one I have is the generation right before 60Hz 4k support, and the 30Hz my current one is at is surprisingly annoying to work with.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#79

Post by scholia »

whyenot wrote: post #60
kragen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, there are a variety of inaccuracies in your short statement. Please carefully read the below so that you can be protected from propagating these errors in the future. · SCO Unix, although it incorporated some Xenix code, was very different from Xenix; it derived a lot from SVR4. · SCO basically went out of business, because their value proposition was "Unix, but on a regular PC so you don't have to buy an expens…

I appreciate your critique, but stand by my original statement. Let me address the items you bring up point by point. Please excuse my brevity. 1. Xenix was based on Bell Labs V7 and then AT&T SVR2, SCO Unix was based on SVR4. Xenix and SCO Unix shared code in addition to that derived from their common ancestry. Claiming that they were "very different" is obviously a matter of opinion. In my opinion, they were pretty…

> MS had the foresight in 1979 to see that Unix would become a big thing

1978, I think. The idea that Unix would take over from CP/M seemed pretty common at the time. The main problems were the high Unix prices and the cost of the hardware required.

However, Microsoft got lucky with DOS on the IBM PC, and the PC market took off, and IBM also licensed Xenix....

Unfortunately, IBM decided that it needed to own the whole stack. This precluded using Unix/Xenix/etc as the PC client, which was a problem because Microsoft was now dependent on IBM. (Ballmer called it "riding the bear", followed by BOGU, for Bend Over, Grease Up.)

IBM finally published its strategy in 1987 as Systems Application Architecture (SAA), which mandated the use of the extended edition of OS/2 (not available from Microsoft) as the PC client. SAA also included IBM's PS/2 micros with MCA expansion buses, intended to break the link with the DOS-based PC industry.

Faced with possible exclusion from the IBM-controlled corporate market (1), the best deal Microsoft could get in 1985 was to co-develop OS/2, so Xenix -- despite having been by far the most popular Unix of its day -- became surplus to requirements.

Another factor was the arrival of AT&T's System V in 1983. This showed AT&T was serious about selling Unix, and maybe Microsoft didn't think it could compete. What it did was contribute small parts of Xenix to SVR4 (1988).

SVR4 was where AT&T & Sun decided to redefine and take over the IT industry, which led to the great Unix Wars and the creation of OSF etc. All of which infighting left the door open for Windows, DR-GEM, DesQview and many others....

Fun days....

(1) SAA flopped and IBM had to go back to making PC compatibles, so it turned out that IBM didn't control the corporate market as much as it thought.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#80

Post by int_19h »

Amezarak wrote: post #29
satysin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and the rumours are that Project Astoria worked too well which scared Microsoft. If Android apps "just worked" on Windows then why would developers bother using their new Universal Windows Platform.

Which is really unfortunate. I can't blame Microsoft for it, but the app-gap between WP/WinMo 10 and Android is getting untenable for me. I'm thinking about switching back, not because I think Android is better (I don't think it is at all), but simply because I'm starting to feel left out when all my family and friends are using, e.g., SnapChat to keep in touch and I...can't. It particularly riles me up that there we…

It feels to me that, with the kernel emulation in place, a third party can now step in to provide reasonable Android emulation on top of that. I mean, unless Android uses kernels with some custom syscalls, it should be usable, right? Now it's a question of recreating the userspace on top of that. I would imagine that many pieces would just fall in naturally, while others (most things to do with UI) would probably require rewriting to properly integrate with the Windows desktop... but it's still doable.
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