The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10 • Hacker News Board

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#41

Post by satysin » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 10:12 PM UTC

Mahn wrote: post #34

satysin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and the rumours are that Project Astoria worked too well which scared Microsoft. If Android apps "just worked" on Windows then why would developers bother using their new Universal Windows Platform.

That's a shame. I mean, I get the concern, but full Android compatibility would have done wonders to adoption, which is what their phone platform desperately needs. They could have always lured developers later with a substantially better UWP on top of it.

I don't believe it would drive adoption at all. Microsoft know Windows Phone today is dead. However they still have the desktop and with UWP they hope to bridge the development gap between mobile/tablet/desktop/laptop.

Had they shipped Astoria in Windows 10 to allow Android apps to "just work" it would have destroyed their UWP strategy.

So they might get a few more Windows Phone users but they would have lost control of the new development platform and given it to Google on a silver platter. And they would never have got anywhere near the numbers Android is at.

I would be shocked if Microsoft don't bring UWP to macOS, Linux and Android (I don't see how they can with iOS) in the not-too-distant-future.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#42

Post by tracker1 » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 10:15 PM UTC

I can't help but think this is all towards an end which is Docker containers running on Azure's core infrastructure. Having the tooling show up earlier in Windows 10 as it's being flushed out is just a really nice bonus.

I've been mostly using bash in windows (installed with git tooling) for a couple years now.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#43

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 10:15 PM UTC

Zardoz84 wrote: post #28

sdrinf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screenshot: http://imgur.com/a/5Fcr9 Short summary: * Ubuntu, and all children apps run under current user's credentials, but are launched under an Lxssmanager servicehost process (as opposed to explorer.exe) * ProcMon can interact (send sigterm / etc to) unix processes; but as shown on htop, unix processes are not aware of windows ones; nor have I found any ways to send signals backwards * API compatibility is excel…

And there is some strange behaviour with the keys. Actually using LXSS become far lees powerfull to the users of Conemu thanks to this. Vim and NeoVim does weird things with the arrows, on mc I can't navigate on the filesytem with the cursors, and htop does weird things.

[deleted]

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#44

Post by 0xFFC » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 10:16 PM UTC

satysin wrote: post #41

Mahn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a shame. I mean, I get the concern, but full Android compatibility would have done wonders to adoption, which is what their phone platform desperately needs. They could have always lured developers later with a substantially better UWP on top of it.

I don't believe it would drive adoption at all. Microsoft know Windows Phone today is dead. However they still have the desktop and with UWP they hope to bridge the development gap between mobile/tablet/desktop/laptop. Had they shipped Astoria in Windows 10 to allow Android apps to "just work" it would have destroyed their UWP strategy. So they might get a few more Windows Phone users but they would have lost control…

Exactly, that is why they bought xamarin in first place. Xamarin was key product. They will push Xamarin as hard as they can in all platforms simultaneously and since they are biggest software company in planet, I see a bright future for Xamarin.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#45

Post by tracker1 » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 10:18 PM UTC

satysin wrote: post #41

Mahn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a shame. I mean, I get the concern, but full Android compatibility would have done wonders to adoption, which is what their phone platform desperately needs. They could have always lured developers later with a substantially better UWP on top of it.

I don't believe it would drive adoption at all. Microsoft know Windows Phone today is dead. However they still have the desktop and with UWP they hope to bridge the development gap between mobile/tablet/desktop/laptop. Had they shipped Astoria in Windows 10 to allow Android apps to "just work" it would have destroyed their UWP strategy. So they might get a few more Windows Phone users but they would have lost control…

Regarding iOS, the purchase of Xamarin and the direction of their tooling could be made to bridge that gap as well... Not that it will, but very well could.

Would be nice to see Apps from VS running in Linux and macOS. There's been some effort that one assumes supports this direction... Also, all things to make Azure nicer to use and better as a target are in their long term interest.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#46

Post by twblalock » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 10:20 PM UTC

wangchow wrote: post #32

Amezarak wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is really unfortunate. I can't blame Microsoft for it, but the app-gap between WP/WinMo 10 and Android is getting untenable for me. I'm thinking about switching back, not because I think Android is better (I don't think it is at all), but simply because I'm starting to feel left out when all my family and friends are using, e.g., SnapChat to keep in touch and I...can't. It particularly riles me up that there we…

Honestly I use the app-gap as a feature. Not having the fluff is great because snapchat is making people illiterate. We went from real words to abbreviations to no words and minimal attention span. On the other hand now that Uber and bank of america have a universal app it feels more complete.

Missing "fluff" is not the problem. The problem is this: When the next killer app comes out, whatever it is, you may want to use it -- but it is very unlikely to be available on Windows Phone.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#47

Post by tracker1 » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 10:23 PM UTC

RCortex wrote: post #40

Anyone know if it's possible to somehow port the linux subsystem to windows 7 and 8?

Not likely, with Windows 8 pro, the latest docker for windows will probably be the closest thing to transparent integration. I tend to run a full Ubuntu Server VM, via SSH, in addition to local samba shares... I edit in a gui in windows, and run everything under linux. YMMV, but it's worked well enough for me.

Now that docker has better integration, I may well start using that more often.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#48

Post by tracker1 » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 10:25 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #13

coverband wrote: post #8

I'd love to see a video of the demo session for this; really curious how ProcMon and AV tools will deal with ELF binaries in this release.

Will they even try? WSL isn't installed by default, you have to specifically ask for it, and presumably only a small percentage of Windows 10 installs are developers who'll be doing that. I don't know if malware writers will bother with it.

You're right. You currently need to sign up for the insider program, enable it, enable ahead of time updates, and install the feature.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#49

Post by mmebane » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 10:30 PM UTC

Zekio wrote: post #35

Zardoz84 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there is some strange behaviour with the keys. Actually using LXSS become far lees powerfull to the users of Conemu thanks to this. Vim and NeoVim does weird things with the arrows, on mc I can't navigate on the filesytem with the cursors, and htop does weird things.

you can get ubuntu bash into ConEmu with just: -new_console bash ~

Or, with current stable (160724), install "Bash on Ubuntu On Windows" (ugh), then in ConEmu, open the Tasks section in Settings and click "Add default tasks...", then Yes.

You may want to add the tilde to the path, as it seems to open to /mnt/c/Users//. Also, I think it still messes with the keys, but not always. They seem to work fine right after starting it.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#50

Post by colechristensen » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 10:30 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #2

I am kinda hesitant to download and open a PDF file coming out of Black Hat 2016. EDIT: See child comment, GitHub preview is fantastic! Slides have a ton of great info.

You shouldn't be. The speakers are paid, the conference concentrates on professionals, and it would be extremely bad form for a presenter to hack participants. The people who run these conferences would take such a threat extremely seriously and you can bet law enforcement would be notified and very well informed.

To the point that I would trust a PDF from BlackHat _more_ than I would trust one from any other scientific or professional conference.