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Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

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Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#281

Post by wangchow »

nitrogen wrote: post #274
andrepd wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone creates something, they set the rules. End of story. Don't like it? Don't buy. But don't steal, also. If you don't like the price of a shirt and don't like the security in the shop, do you just grab the shirt and leave? Oh, and the store is supposed to thank you , because after all you're going to wear the shirt in public and get a ton of free publicity for the store? Puh-lease...

There's nothing inherent in nature that gives a creator any control whatsoever over others' use of their ideas. In the absence of a system of copyright, every audience member at a concert would be free to hold their own concert the next day, singing their remembered versions of the same songs. This is how culture actually worked for ages. Copyright is a legal fiction, created by governments and enforced by the threat…

Wow we were literally on the same wavelength there :)

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#282

Post by acveilleux »

tener wrote: post #6

Could it be it has suddently became illegal due to some novel interpretation of existing laws?

Maybe they ran out of sufficient advertisers with low enough morals to advertise on their site? Torrent sites are full of the worse ads and abusive javascript.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#283

Post by tempestn »

josho wrote: post #188
tempestn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For movies you can find on Netflix that's absolutely true. The difference is that effectively anything can be found via torrent or nzb, while the catalog of any single paid provider, even netflix, is relatively limited. You might get reasonable coverage (although still not as complete) by combining a number of subscription services, but the 'ease' advantage quickly disappears. I would happily pay a significant multip…

In this thread why are the rental options like iTunes not being discussed? Those distribution channels have the convenience of streaming, and a deep catalog. Is it because everyone wants all the movies for $10/mth or less rather than $5 a show?

I'm honestly not that familiar with iTunes' offerings. $5 for a new release movie rental sounds ok if the selection is there.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#284

Post by rpgmaker »

lewisl9029 wrote: post #277
andrepd wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As you mention, intent is not always to avoid paying. Yeah, not always, but very often. Everyone here is trying to downplay this, but I would say >80% of people (disclamer: pulled from my behind) torrent simply because it's free and if they can easily obtain it free rather than paying, then they will. The argument that people pirate because the paid options are shit, and if they were as convenient as torrents people…

> Everyone here is trying to downplay this, but I would say >80% of people (disclamer: pulled from my behind) torrent simply because it's free and if they can easily obtain it free rather than paying, then they will. The argument that people pirate because the paid options are shit, and if they were as convenient as torrents people would just pay for them, is rendered moot with the Steam counterexample. Content distr…

>There is also the argument that a large portion of those people would never have paid for your content in the first place

So? If you make a product you usually pay a lot of attention to price it in a way that your target market can afford. The people that can't pay for it aren't supposed to get it for "free" (if you everyone accepted this logic capitalism as we know it would crumble). I say this as someone who pirates something every now and then but I don't have to pretend that I'm somehow righteous when I do it. I do it for the same selfish reasons everyone else does even if they like to pretend otherwise.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#285

Post by youngButEager »

GOOD RIDDANCE. The example of Zuckerberg stealing the idea for Facebook and getting rich has contributed to the foolish belief that it's okay to "enjoy the benefit of something that was SUPPOSED to be paid for -- and NOT PAYING".

"I didn't steal any copyrighted material, my site just helped people who WANTED to enjoy the benefit of copyrighted material that was SUPPOSED to be paid for but didn't pay. So I'm in the clear!"

NO. Torrentz "Drove the getaway car", taking thieves to where the crime was committed.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#286

Post by ethanbond »

analog31 wrote: post #185
ceeK wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I wonder whether this experience with the free cracked version helped make Photoshop any more popular. If it was only used in the legal sense, costing hundreds, would it be so popular?

At one point, I developed a hypothesis that for a big software vendor, turning a blind eye to piracy was like a form of "dumping" on the market. Consider a vendor like Microsoft. They could make their money selling legit copies to businesses, and through package deals on new computers. Meanwhile, anybody who tried to sell a simpler or even better product at a lower price was forced out of the market by the "free" cop…

Autodesk (maker of AutoCAD) gives out several thousand dollar pieces of software to anyone with an .edu these days. That's totally the strategy behind it.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#287

Post by habitue »

aerovistae wrote: post #267

The thing that gets me is that everyone's fine with libraries and used book stores, as well as sales of second hand games and DVDs, none of which send profits back to the creators or rights-owners. But digital piracy , that's amoral. Sigh. I like seeing the contortions of logic people pull off to try and explain how these things are different.

But it is different! Used bookstores wont let you walk out with the book for free, they charge you :P

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#288

Post by dhimes »

nitrogen wrote: post #274
andrepd wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone creates something, they set the rules. End of story. Don't like it? Don't buy. But don't steal, also. If you don't like the price of a shirt and don't like the security in the shop, do you just grab the shirt and leave? Oh, and the store is supposed to thank you , because after all you're going to wear the shirt in public and get a ton of free publicity for the store? Puh-lease...

There's nothing inherent in nature that gives a creator any control whatsoever over others' use of their ideas. In the absence of a system of copyright, every audience member at a concert would be free to hold their own concert the next day, singing their remembered versions of the same songs. This is how culture actually worked for ages. Copyright is a legal fiction, created by governments and enforced by the threat…

All laws are fiction by your account. Why is violence illegal? Why can't bigger/more skilled people just beat up the weak and take their stuff? That's how things were for tens of thousands of years. Prohibiting that is a legal fiction.

Torrenting a movie does not fall into the category of "theft of ideas." It is falls into the category of stealing a work.

As for the argument that things would be made/written etc. anyway, you can still find that. It's out there. If it was better, you would be hearing the music all over the radio. You would be seeing the productions all over TV (because there's no royalty to pay, right?). You do hear and see some, but it's no way for a lot of to make a living. It's not enough. There's no way to take a year off and write that novel that you aren't going to get paid for. So you write a blog instead.

No, some way to protect the work of the people who do it is needed. I appreciate your opinion, but I don't think it's the right answer here.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#289

Post by digler999 »

andrepd wrote: post #270
digler999 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop talking "out of your ass". I pirate an occasional movie for a friend, but I spend more time watching shows on Netflix. Why would I even pay for Netflix when I could get anything I want for free ? Because they have a really convenient UI and easy access to their content. I recently purchased a Google Play Music subscription, despite having 10^6 "pirated" songs on my HDD. Why ? Because they have a reasonable price…

Good for you. There are 6,999,999,999 other people in the world. It's not reasonable to assume everyone else thinks the same as you.

why are you suddenly using facts when your initial position used total guesses ?

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#290

Post by lewisl9029 »

rpgmaker wrote: post #284
lewisl9029 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone here is trying to downplay this, but I would say >80% of people (disclamer: pulled from my behind) torrent simply because it's free and if they can easily obtain it free rather than paying, then they will. The argument that people pirate because the paid options are shit, and if they were as convenient as torrents people would just pay for them, is rendered moot with the Steam counterexample. Content distr…

> There is also the argument that a large portion of those people would never have paid for your content in the first place So? If you make a product you usually pay a lot of attention to price it in a way that your target market can afford. The people that can't pay for it aren't supposed to get it for "free" (if you everyone accepted this logic capitalism as we know it would crumble). I say this as someone who pira…

I wasn't trying to justify piracy or suggest that people should be able to get things for free [1]. Rather that while piracy is an unfortunate reality of doing business selling digital goods, it probably doesn't have nearly as much impact on the bottom line as some might believe.

This is why companies like Valve practically ignore piracy altogether and instead focus on delivering as much value as possible to actual paying customers at prices they're willing to accept (focusing on exactly what you said smart businesses should). Contrast that to those companies that, blinded by the sheer number of people pirating their products, waste money and time in a futile effort to combat piracy by placing draconian DRM schemes on their products, that end up resulting in the pirated versions offering a superior user experience when all is said and done. A sweet irony if I ever saw one.

[1] I used to be a heavy pirate myself when I was in high school, but these days I regularly pay for content that's priced fairly and delivered in a way that's not user-hostile, and simply treat everything else as if it never existed in the first place.

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