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Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

psychology.stanford.edu

61–70 of 166 posts

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#61
post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

The lesson they taught you is politically palatable to a lot of people, but it strikes me as gross. That it was the most valuable thing you learned in that school underlies just how pointless the entire exercise really was.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#62

Stop trying to game your kids. Praise them whatever. Love, security, praise, attention, just go for it. I doubt very much that all the noise around raising children can be filtered out to be able to differentiate between sentences. Just raise kids with love and fun.

I'll skip the humility. I'm smart. Always have been. My parents realized it early on and praised me for it. I pretty much slept through high school because after a couple of minutes of explanation of any math, science or computer science concept I grasped it. I never did any work, although I read a lot about the subjects I enjoyed, because I enjoyed them.

The non-STEM stuff was confusingly ill-defined and in those subjects I was average, at best. And because I wasn't good at them, I avoided them: I didn't do anything to be smart, I always had been, so what could I do to become smart at reading Shakespeare? I had no idea how I could learn to understand something I didn't understand because understanding seemed to have been something I was just born with.

I did well enough on the SATs to get into a top college and decided to major in electrical engineering. I skated through freshman year, earning a low B average.

Towards the end of the year I met with my advisor, the head of the department for the first time. Without preamble he said "We made a mistake. You're not really the person you looked like you'd be in your application." I didn't really grasp what he was saying. "You're not getting the grades your record indicates you could get. You're not working hard enough. You should think about transferring to a less demanding school. In any case, EE requires a commitment and I think you should pick a different major."

I was stunned. This was the first time in my life that anyone had ever done anything but praise my academics. I was angry. How could this adult, who claimed to be some sort of mentor, talk to me like that? In fact, writing this years and years later, I'm still a little pissed off.

But looking around, all my friends and classmates were working their asses off, getting ready for finals. The guy may have been a jerk, but he was right: I wasn't working hard and I wasn't learning very much. Much as I dislike the guy, I have to admit he did me an enormous service. He recognized that I needed a kick in the teeth to take his advice seriously. The next three years I made sure I worked harder than everyone else around me, if only to prove that he was wrong, that I hadn't been a mistake. I stayed in EE and would have graduated near the top of my class if I hadn't had to factor in my freshman year grades.

So what does that prove? That you can make a kid neurotic if you push him hard enough? Maybe. But I know that if I had tried to skate through my post-college life being smart and not working, I would have got nowhere and done nothing interesting. Being super intelligent is like having giant biceps: impressive, but rarely useful. People admire intelligence, but they reward getting things done. Getting things done requires some intelligence, but much more it requires hard work and stick-to-itiveness. I'm not faulting my parents one bit: they manifestly loved me, found me good schools and interesting activities and fed my eagerness to do useful things. But I'm careful with my kids to praise the things they control and can change--like hard work and not being deterred when things are hard--and let the being smart thing take care of itself.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#64
post #16

This is utter bullshit. Let the fucking kid enjoy some self-esteem. Focusing on improving his "motivation" instead of his well-being is manipulative and can backfire in so many ways. Just let him be. Fuck the productivity way of life.

> Let the fucking kid enjoy some self-esteem.

I'd rather try to give him tools he can use to build self-respect, so his early life isn't as fucked up as mine was.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#65
post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

HOW CAN HE PASS

I wanted to pass but there was this old guy with cane on the bridge saying "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#66
post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

That's a bullshit lesson though. You were held back because you made the system and the other kids look bad.

Turning up every day would have wasted your time, because you would have been bored and frustrated.

A good school would have forced you to turn up but would have let you run ahead at your own pace - or maybe moved you to an environment for the gifted.

Talent is rare and useful. Gifted kids should have the same boundaries and support as everyone else, but work challenges should be stretched in line with their abilities.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#67
post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

The lesson is that if you are too different people will go out of their way to punish you for it?

Yeah, I think it's a horrible lesson and a shame that too many people in powerful positions get away with it.

Yes, you should actually learn the material. No, you should not be punished for being gifted. The school should have recognized what they were dealing with, given you the test the second week and promoted you. Then perhaps you could have been challenged.

This whole "everyone has to go at the same speed" thing is what destroys gifted people.

You could have gone to college early, who knows maybe learned a lot and discovered a treatment or even a cure for many types of cancer or be the next great inventor.

Instead this school taught you to be mediocre and fit it.

What this school did to you and what it does to others is a travesty.

As a society we are destroying our most gifted people, simply so people "feel better"

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#68
post #2

TL;DR: If you're interacting with a kid, try to avoid saying, "you're so smart!" and instead say, "You've picked this up really quickly" or "you're such a hard worker". If you tell a child they are smart then they will stop trying either because they assume they can get by on their intelligence or because they are afraid of failing and loosing your praise about how smart they are.

But doesn't every praise, every comparison create a narrative for the child. A narrative that the brain learns to lean on and uses to form self-identity ( hard-worker, good boy ect). for example, Now the child has learned associate praise( and love) with being a hard worker. This is now his framework for his life, a prison he can never escape. I think this a form of child abuse, to destroy child's spirit with praises…

Why can't children learn for their own enjoyment

Have you never met someone whose spirit was broken as a kid, as they struggled to earn praise, but their successes or even struggles were never acknowledged? It's practically a character archetype. Kids hunger for approval from their parents, the same way you hunger for approval from your heroes.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#69
post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

The lesson they taught you is politically palatable to a lot of people, but it strikes me as gross. That it was the most valuable thing you learned in that school underlies just how pointless the entire exercise really was.

Agreed. This "lesson" is disgusting.
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