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Re: undefined

#11

Post by mikestew »

fraytormenta wrote: post #6
chroma wrote: post #4

Many books are interesting and impressive. That doesn't make them divine. After reading this post, I do wonder if the author has read the entire Bible. I haven't, but the parts that I have read ranged from mediocre to abysmal. The Pentateuch has some of the worst verses I have ever seen. Leviticus and Deuteronomy are rife with commands to kill people for trivial transgressions. And the Bible never speaks out against…

Hey friend, I am the author. I ended up reading every verse, and learning Greek and Hebrew on my binge of curiosity, and the Bible continues to impress me. I would say that something that you ask had actually happened, just not in exactly the same ways as you imagine. There are also some factual errors in your post. For example, the Bible has a lot to say about slavery and is directly connected to its abolition. If y…

For example, the Bible has a lot to say about slavery and is directly connected to its abolition.

It also has a lot to say on the topic in that slaves are to continue to be subservient to their masters, thus supporting the point. If one reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't walk away with a stack of questions starting with "so which is it?" on just about any topic, you weren't paying attention.

Re: undefined

#13

Post by fraytormenta »

mikestew wrote: post #11
fraytormenta wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey friend, I am the author. I ended up reading every verse, and learning Greek and Hebrew on my binge of curiosity, and the Bible continues to impress me. I would say that something that you ask had actually happened, just not in exactly the same ways as you imagine. There are also some factual errors in your post. For example, the Bible has a lot to say about slavery and is directly connected to its abolition. If y…

For example, the Bible has a lot to say about slavery and is directly connected to its abolition. It also has a lot to say on the topic in that slaves are to continue to be subservient to their masters, thus supporting the point. If one reads it cover-to-cover and doesn't walk away with a stack of questions starting with "so which is it?" on just about any topic, you weren't paying attention.

mike, you are confusing the impressions you got from the text with the impressions historical actors that banned the slavery received. those are different things.

Re: undefined

#14

Post by crazy_geek »

brianobush wrote: post #10
crazy_geek wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the Bible never speaks out against slavery. Most people, when speaking about slavery, are only aware of American slavery. Slavery in ancient times was generally a very different thing. But yes, it does speak about what was American style slavery, which involved effectively kidnapping and forced slavery: Leviticus 21:16 "Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is sti…

> Reading just bits and pieces of the bible doesn't give you the proper context to interpret properly. Right, but if you read more you will be utterly confused and find conflicting views. Which is why most people only pick the parts that they agree with.

I've run into what appear to be conflicting views, but after some study, I'm able to resolve them. Usually it's understanding things in their proper context. That is: it's by reading more and paying more attention.

Re: undefined

#15

Post by fraytormenta »

brianobush wrote: post #8
fraytormenta wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey friend, I am the author. I ended up reading every verse, and learning Greek and Hebrew on my binge of curiosity, and the Bible continues to impress me. I would say that something that you ask had actually happened, just not in exactly the same ways as you imagine. There are also some factual errors in your post. For example, the Bible has a lot to say about slavery and is directly connected to its abolition. If y…

Slavery was present in the US until 1860 or so, and I think the bible was around a little before that time. The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery. I would not assert that the Bible has any connection to its abolition.

Sure, but I got nothing to respond here to - a negative assertion cannot be proved or disproved. Do you have another causal historic explanation for the abolition of slavery? Do you mind providing an academic reference for your view?

Re: undefined

#16

Post by chroma »

crazy_geek wrote: post #9
chroma wrote: post #4

Many books are interesting and impressive. That doesn't make them divine. After reading this post, I do wonder if the author has read the entire Bible. I haven't, but the parts that I have read ranged from mediocre to abysmal. The Pentateuch has some of the worst verses I have ever seen. Leviticus and Deuteronomy are rife with commands to kill people for trivial transgressions. And the Bible never speaks out against…

> And the Bible never speaks out against slavery. Most people, when speaking about slavery, are only aware of American slavery. Slavery in ancient times was generally a very different thing. But yes, it does speak about what was American style slavery, which involved effectively kidnapping and forced slavery: Leviticus 21:16 "Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is sti…

I'm pretty sure that verse allows slavery. It forbids kidnapping and enslaving people, but if someone is born a slave, buying and selling them is fine. Fortunately, I don't have to be an expert on the Bible to argue this point. If the Bible's anti-slavery position was so clear, why did it take almost two millennia for theologians to figure that out?

Also, do you really endorse that verse? That is: Do you think we should institute the death penalty for the crime of kidnapping? If not, why not? "Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death," is as explicit and unambiguous as it is possible to be.

Re: undefined

#17

Post by NovaX »

chroma wrote: post #4

Many books are interesting and impressive. That doesn't make them divine. After reading this post, I do wonder if the author has read the entire Bible. I haven't, but the parts that I have read ranged from mediocre to abysmal. The Pentateuch has some of the worst verses I have ever seen. Leviticus and Deuteronomy are rife with commands to kill people for trivial transgressions. And the Bible never speaks out against…

I found reading the Talmud and Pirkei Avot to be helpful in interpreting the (Jewish) Bible. I also read a lot of history books which made it easier to understand the meaning behind what the authors were trying to convey, the challenges, and the culture. (As a Jew, I found the NT to make absolutely no sense and frustratingly illogical / inconsistent).

Re: undefined

#18

Post by emdd »

chroma wrote: post #4

Many books are interesting and impressive. That doesn't make them divine. After reading this post, I do wonder if the author has read the entire Bible. I haven't, but the parts that I have read ranged from mediocre to abysmal. The Pentateuch has some of the worst verses I have ever seen. Leviticus and Deuteronomy are rife with commands to kill people for trivial transgressions. And the Bible never speaks out against…

If you would take a slight stroll from your worldview to the "Biblical worldview" you learn about the theology of inspiration. See, Christians (most traditions) believe that God did not write the Bible. It is the common belief that God inspired (or, more literally, God-breathed) the words through the guidance of his spirit through his followers. So, if you can put on that perspective, it would make sense why it is so embedded and entangled into the dozens of authors' cultural norms and approaches. It also would explain why it doesn't put other books to shame; they are all written by people!

Since the theology of the authorship of the Bible specifically posits that it was written by people, then that would also explain why it does not address things that the writers did not know.

Lastly, many of the writings of the Christian Bible (somewhat similarly for the Jewish Bible) were written for a particular occasion (this is even more true in the New Testament epistles and gospels). Thus, the message of those writings needed to have a purpose and the implied audience (as opposed to the empirical audience [see implied/empirical authorship/audience theory]) is the intended audience for the author. All this to say, that is why it's challenging to find truths that we can agree on when reading an ancient text, for ancient cultures, by ancient authors, and find application in a 21st-century world. It's not impossible, but that is the challenge of exegesis.

Re: undefined

#19

Post by sigi45 »

What Impressed Me About the .

The problem? The bible is one of few books which lead to lots of death and separation of people.

We all should read the bible as every other book out there: as some book we like to read and perhaps enjoy.

I hope we will ever be able to become a non divided society based on trust on each other.

Re: undefined

#20

Post by theandrewbailey »

chroma wrote: post #4

Many books are interesting and impressive. That doesn't make them divine. After reading this post, I do wonder if the author has read the entire Bible. I haven't, but the parts that I have read ranged from mediocre to abysmal. The Pentateuch has some of the worst verses I have ever seen. Leviticus and Deuteronomy are rife with commands to kill people for trivial transgressions. And the Bible never speaks out against…

The Bible has much to say about how God sees all people equally, that people should treat each other as family (it even teaches that humanity is the same huge family), and about how people should be as close to God as possible. The Bible wants you to think and realize on your own that slavery is a bad thing.

> It would put every human work to shame.

Are you talking about literary pieces, or everything done by humans? Because it attacks the latter:

Romans 3:9-10 "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

Isaiah 64:6 "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags."

> It would contain proof of its divineness by explaining things that 1st-century scribes couldn't possibly know.

That would be counter productive. The Bible is meant for everyone to read and understand. If it tried to explain things that even educated people couldn't possibly know, the Bible would be as popular to read as EULAs.

> It would be so densely packed with information on math, physics, biology, and morality that today's greatest minds would study it to create new technologies. It would explain the germ theory of disease, formulas for antibiotics, and treatments for cancer, Alzheimer's, and heart disease.

The Bible emphasizes the spiritual, not the physical, and it told humanity to figure the world out:

Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

Proverbs 6:6 "Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise"

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