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Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

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Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#231

Post by Endy »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #192
mikegerwitz wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "piracy" doesn't help the problems any---it's a smear term that tries to put downloading and sharing on the same level as murder and kidnapping. https://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-banned-from-using-piracy-and-t... . I prefer the term "sharing". As you mention, intent is not always to avoid paying. Some people may want backups, may have lost their copy after paying for it, may be frustrated by DRM-laced copies tha…

I also like "illegal sharing" for the description. Almost anyone can understand that with little, additional info. "Copyright infringement" is not something I can explain in 10 seconds. They'll probably remember it wrong over time, too.

Because copyright is a broken system that needs to be dissolved.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#232

Post by mikegerwitz »

lettergram wrote: post #208
mikegerwitz wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "piracy" doesn't help the problems any---it's a smear term that tries to put downloading and sharing on the same level as murder and kidnapping. https://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-banned-from-using-piracy-and-t... . I prefer the term "sharing". As you mention, intent is not always to avoid paying. Some people may want backups, may have lost their copy after paying for it, may be frustrated by DRM-laced copies tha…

> As you mention, intent is not always to avoid paying. Oh man, I used to have to reformat my computer regularly (like 3 times a year). There were several hardware issues, my house was struck by lightning, etc. I swear every time I'd have to call windows, and be like "hey my key is not working" (I know it's because it was activated previously, but still). They would usually make me call and reset it or what have you.…

> Honesty, I'd argue most people would pay if they could (at a reasonable price), torrenting just makes all the barriers go away.

Or pay more, even, for a non-DRM-encumbered version; DRM stops people like you, but not crackers or the analog hole.

Thanks for sharing a good example.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#233

Post by mikegerwitz »

alanwatts wrote: post #215
mikegerwitz wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "piracy" doesn't help the problems any---it's a smear term that tries to put downloading and sharing on the same level as murder and kidnapping. https://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-banned-from-using-piracy-and-t... . I prefer the term "sharing". As you mention, intent is not always to avoid paying. Some people may want backups, may have lost their copy after paying for it, may be frustrated by DRM-laced copies tha…

>The term "piracy" doesn't help the problems any---it's a smear term that tries to put downloading and sharing on the same level as murder and kidnapping. Precisely: >I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone. -Jack Valenti (former president of MPAA for 38 years), 1982 congressional hearing https://cryptome.org/hrcw-hear.htm

Thank you for sharing this! This is not only a good piece of history, but an excellent example of history repeating itself.

Correct me if I'm wrong---I haven't read it yet, but I'm excited to do so over the weekend.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#234

Post by digi_owl »

ceeK wrote: post #75
justrossthings wrote: post #69

>TFW your children won't experience having access to all the software, music, and other content they could ever want just by knowing how to use a computer better than most people Feels bad man. Having access to a cracked version of Photoshop at 13 years old changed my life.

Same here. I wonder whether this experience with the free cracked version helped make Photoshop any more popular. If it was only used in the legal sense, costing hundreds, would it be so popular?

I swear there is a line from Bill Gates about how he would rather see people used unlicensed copies of Microsoft products than look into FOSS alternatives.

Never mind the number of companies that maintain steep student discounts. It sure has hell is not because of the goodness of their hearts.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#235

Post by Svenskunganka »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #229
Svenskunganka wrote: post #65

Torrents and copyright infringement is related, we can all agree on that. But I believe that pirating is related to a very fuzzy legal system regarding this topic and unfair treatment by the major movie studios & music labels. I'll try to explain as good as I can. Being a european citizen, it is very frustrating knowing that pirating is illegal even though being a Netflix, HBO & Spotify customer. Pirating is a much b…

On one hand, I understand the frustration, and I think that copyright holders and policymamkers would be wise to keep this frustration in mind when they make and enforce copyright laws. On the other hand, however, I don't see how this frustration can serve as a justification for copyright infringement. This seems to flow from one of two premises: 1. the studios made it, therefore I have a right to watch and enjoy it…

I do understand that it is not a justification, and I don't justify that as a reason for torrenting content that are unavailable via the legal alternatives due to geo-restriction or geo-blocking. What I am saying is that I believe the torrenting trends in the EU & AUS is mainly due to this very reason.

And let's not kid ourselves, the copyright holders are not stupid. They are very well aware that this is a problem, maybe not the reason, but at least a problem. Yet they keep up with these practices, throwing millions at copyright organizations such as MPAA & RIAA every year to build up some form of scare tactic against normal, law abiding citizens across the globe and creating lots of unnecessary tension between ISPs, governments and enterprises like Google instead of addressing the problem at hand.

There are of course edge cases where I think torrenting copyrighted content is OK. For example, my PC doesn't have a CD reader and I bought the game "The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion" years ago, still have the CD but no way to install the game on my PC, so... I torrented it.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#236

Post by alanwatts »

mikegerwitz wrote: post #233
alanwatts wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The term "piracy" doesn't help the problems any---it's a smear term that tries to put downloading and sharing on the same level as murder and kidnapping. Precisely: >I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone. -Jack Valenti (former president of MPAA for 38 years), 1982 congressional hearing https://cryptome.org/hrcw-hear.htm

Thank you for sharing this! This is not only a good piece of history, but an excellent example of history repeating itself. Correct me if I'm wrong---I haven't read it yet, but I'm excited to do so over the weekend.

It's simply luditism. Their business model depends upon the constraints of obsolete technology, so they will resist every new innovation as an evil killer until their artificial monopoly finally bleeds out.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#237

Post by emodendroket »

Svenskunganka wrote: post #65

Torrents and copyright infringement is related, we can all agree on that. But I believe that pirating is related to a very fuzzy legal system regarding this topic and unfair treatment by the major movie studios & music labels. I'll try to explain as good as I can. Being a european citizen, it is very frustrating knowing that pirating is illegal even though being a Netflix, HBO & Spotify customer. Pirating is a much b…

Plenty of restrictions apply to US Spotify users too.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#238

Post by nickpsecurity »

Endy wrote: post #231
nickpsecurity wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also like "illegal sharing" for the description. Almost anyone can understand that with little, additional info. "Copyright infringement" is not something I can explain in 10 seconds. They'll probably remember it wrong over time, too.

Because copyright is a broken system that needs to be dissolved.

No, because there's about five rights or so with considerations for hiw they're used. Whereas, "you can use whatever you buy but sharing the file or password is probably illegal" is easy for most people to understand and lets them avoid 99% of lawsuit risk. This is true whether copyright system is good or bad. Just simple, mental model.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#239

Post by digi_owl »

analog31 wrote: post #185
ceeK wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I wonder whether this experience with the free cracked version helped make Photoshop any more popular. If it was only used in the legal sense, costing hundreds, would it be so popular?

At one point, I developed a hypothesis that for a big software vendor, turning a blind eye to piracy was like a form of "dumping" on the market. Consider a vendor like Microsoft. They could make their money selling legit copies to businesses, and through package deals on new computers. Meanwhile, anybody who tried to sell a simpler or even better product at a lower price was forced out of the market by the "free" cop…

I could have sworn that MS had to be dragged into strengthening their anti-copying measures from XP onwards by the BSA.

Never mind that MS tries to argue that their products have a lower total cost of "ownership" for businesses, as potential employees are familiar with MS products by having used them already. Thus they require less training if hired.

I think there is even a statement from Bill Gates somewhere about how he would rather see people use unlicensed MS products than FOSS alternatives.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#240

Post by digi_owl »

pandler wrote: post #216
analog31 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At one point, I developed a hypothesis that for a big software vendor, turning a blind eye to piracy was like a form of "dumping" on the market. Consider a vendor like Microsoft. They could make their money selling legit copies to businesses, and through package deals on new computers. Meanwhile, anybody who tried to sell a simpler or even better product at a lower price was forced out of the market by the "free" cop…

> At one point, I developed a hypothesis that for a big software vendor, turning a blind eye to piracy was like a form of "dumping" on the market. Consider a vendor like Microsoft. They could make their money selling legit copies to businesses, and through package deals on new computers. I have anecdata to support this, actually, though I won't name names. The company in question prided itself on the fact that bootle…

Heh, i have a lovely anecdote about those student discounts.

The only guy i knew that had heard anything about Apple before the iPod craze was a hobby musician i grew up alongside. Once he reached college the first thing he did was buy himself a Macbook using the student discount.

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