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Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

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Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#221

Post by squeaky-clean »

candu wrote: post #213
josho wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing is just as bad as pirating. Let's call it what it is. Copyright infringement.

Well, your statement is tautological, since those are two terms for the same thing :) The real question is how "bad" we should consider copyright infringement to be. For many of us, copyright law has lost its moral footing with draconian DRM, extreme examples of RIAA / MPAA litigation, insane Disney-fueled copyright terms, and a corresponding erosion of the public domain. It may not have lost its legal footing, but l…

> Well, your statement is tautological, since those are two terms for the same thing

They mean the word choice, not the act it's describing. "Piracy" smears it as a terrible thing (you're a pirate!), but "sharing" frames it as a good (What do you mean, I was only sharing the movie). The GGP comment switches one biased term for another biased term.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#222

Post by provoc »

omginternets wrote: post #101
spriggan3 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> oh look a troll, using a brand new account too, what a great way to add to the conversation. Calm down, we're not on reddit. Having a different opinion doesn't make one a troll.

His handle is literally "provoc". He's outright telling us that he's a troll.

Just because my comments challenge the rigid dogma of the pro-piracy horde, does not mean they are a 'troll'. I had hoped HN would be more open-minded.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#223

Post by Svenskunganka »

dxxvi wrote: post #212
Svenskunganka wrote: post #65

Torrents and copyright infringement is related, we can all agree on that. But I believe that pirating is related to a very fuzzy legal system regarding this topic and unfair treatment by the major movie studios & music labels. I'll try to explain as good as I can. Being a european citizen, it is very frustrating knowing that pirating is illegal even though being a Netflix, HBO & Spotify customer. Pirating is a much b…

"Torrents and copyright infringement is related, we can all agree on that": torrent is a technology to share files while copyright infringement is an action that violates the copyright. What is the relation between them??? Then according to you, emails and copyright infringement is also related (I can send a mp3 song via emails). Or the steel industry and crimes are related because steel is used to make knives, guns…

Now you are just playing plain stupid, and won't contribute anything of value to a serious discussion about the problems with legal alternatives over torrenting.

I can't see how you can imagine that having a discussion about this with someone high up in the movie industry acting like you do would do any good. You'd just be shunned. It's better to be realistic and acknowledge the fact that the majority of torrent traffic is related to copyright infringement, and that it is a problem and the only way to solve it is to make the legal alternatives better and more attractive to the general public. Of course, the BitTorrent protocol is not and should never be illegal, but you have to acknowledge that it is the protocol that currently plays the biggest part in infringing copyrighted content.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#224

Post by dhimes »

wangchow wrote: post #218
dhimes wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you also have to allow for the idea that you are doing harm to the creator if you are making it available for free even if you don't profit from it.

Certainly true. However, the digital world is a changing landscape. Consider how technology replaces humans in the workplace and displaces jobs. No matter what, change causes collateral damage and the reality is this time it's hitting the bottom-line of the wealthy studios. If they can't afford to come up with a brilliant technical solution to the problem then they are SOL. :)

And so are a lot of others I suppose.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#225

Post by DarkLinkXXXX »

anonaut wrote: post #99
justrossthings wrote: post #69

>TFW your children won't experience having access to all the software, music, and other content they could ever want just by knowing how to use a computer better than most people Feels bad man. Having access to a cracked version of Photoshop at 13 years old changed my life.

There are still thousand other ways to get what you want. Usenet/Private Trackers/xdcc/FTP/OCH for example. Filesharing will never die, but the easiest available ways will always be a target of the copyright cops.

I recognize all of those but OCH. What is that?

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#226

Post by rhino369 »

Svenskunganka wrote: post #15
nothrabannosir wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technological reality doesn't matter in law. What matters is whether you facilitate crime or not.

I agree, but the case with torrents and trackers is such a gray area. Shouldn't routers be illegal since they help facilitate crime? If not, why should trackers? I'm just playing with thoughts, interested in seeing what people think.

Trackers in general aren't illegal. You can host a tracker with legal content. You can't host a tracker that serves up zero say scene releases. Just like a router in a sever farm that serves cp is part of an illegal operation.

There is a gray area where you'd host a tracker that serves legal content but some copyrighted material gets through. The DMCA safe harbor should take of that. But most of these torrent frackers are so obviously designed to host pirated stuff that dmca won't cover them.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#227

Post by tooFastFuckYou »

josho wrote: post #184
mikegerwitz wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "piracy" doesn't help the problems any---it's a smear term that tries to put downloading and sharing on the same level as murder and kidnapping. https://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-banned-from-using-piracy-and-t... . I prefer the term "sharing". As you mention, intent is not always to avoid paying. Some people may want backups, may have lost their copy after paying for it, may be frustrated by DRM-laced copies tha…

Sharing is just as bad as pirating. Let's call it what it is. Copyright infringement.

Let's call DRM what it is: a rip-off.

When people go out and BUY a disc but are then prevented from putting the content they PAID FOR onto their computer or tablet for a plane trip (for example), that is a rip-off. If that person lacks the ability to extract the content from the disc and instead turns to a torrent of it, that's justifiable and nobody can change that fact. It doesn't matter what anti-citizen, anti-consumer laws are passed.

People need to grow a nut and stop regurgitating the lies used to steal from us.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#228

Post by tooFastFuckYou »

wangchow wrote: post #218
dhimes wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you also have to allow for the idea that you are doing harm to the creator if you are making it available for free even if you don't profit from it.

Certainly true. However, the digital world is a changing landscape. Consider how technology replaces humans in the workplace and displaces jobs. No matter what, change causes collateral damage and the reality is this time it's hitting the bottom-line of the wealthy studios. If they can't afford to come up with a brilliant technical solution to the problem then they are SOL. :)

Lame justification. Grow up.

I torrent stuff all the time, but I would never stoop to this ridiculous attempt to rationalize it.

For a better one, try condemning the continued use of DRM to prevent users from deploying content THEY PAID FOR, on the device of their choice.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#229

Post by pdabbadabba »

Svenskunganka wrote: post #65

Torrents and copyright infringement is related, we can all agree on that. But I believe that pirating is related to a very fuzzy legal system regarding this topic and unfair treatment by the major movie studios & music labels. I'll try to explain as good as I can. Being a european citizen, it is very frustrating knowing that pirating is illegal even though being a Netflix, HBO & Spotify customer. Pirating is a much b…

On one hand, I understand the frustration, and I think that copyright holders and policymamkers would be wise to keep this frustration in mind when they make and enforce copyright laws.

On the other hand, however, I don't see how this frustration can serve as a justification for copyright infringement. This seems to flow from one of two premises: 1. the studios made it, therefore I have a right to watch and enjoy it or 2. the studios have made something available to some people, therefore I have a right to see it too. And I don't see how either is even arguably true from either a moral or legal perspective. After all, we're talking about movies and TV shows here, not food and water. (It would be different, of course, if the studios were targeting traditionally disadvantaged minority groups. But I don't think there's any credible argument that there is something akin to, e.g., racial discrimination going on here.)

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#230

Post by Endy »

dhimes wrote: post #209
wangchow wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that copyright infringement is: making a derivative work of something and selling it for a profit; or stealing an idea outright and profiting from it.

But you also have to allow for the idea that you are doing harm to the creator if you are making it available for free even if you don't profit from it.

No, I don't allow that idea. If anything, I'm helping the creator by getting one more set of eyes and potentially word-of-mouth advertising out there that wouldn't have happened otherwise. If creators believed their product actually had value, they'd offer a 'try-before-you-buy' option. When they paywall & DRM it, my automatic assumption is that they know it's crap and they'd get nothing for it if they were dealing openly and honestly with people.
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