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Brasília at Midnight

evenmagazine.com

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Re: Brasília at Midnight

#31

Post by ucaetano »

andrenth wrote: post #30
_jgvg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The impeachment process isn't judged by the Supreme Court.

There were multuple appeals to the Supreme Court, which has always let the process continue. And in senate, the president of the Supreme Court leads the final judgement.

Those are recourses claiming the process itself is wrong, but the impeachment isn't judged by the Supreme Court.

And remember, 8 of the 11 judges were appointed by Dilma's party. So if you'd expect bias, it would be towards supporting Dilma.

Re: Brasília at Midnight

#32

Post by olh »

geezerjay wrote: post #22
olh wrote: post #3

This article is spot on. There is an important detail that sounds like conspiracy theory and that bothers me as a brazilian: much of the extent of the economical crisis was orchestrated with propaganda by sectors of our society engulfed in corruption charges (from briberies to tax evasion) after the global drop in commodities prices and suddenly investments halted by market fear and a real crisis took place (and then…

> There was a common headline at the time in newspapers: "apesar da crise", meaning "even though in a crisis", followed by the report of a new market/business sector record in profits. A couple of months ago in a conversation with a Brazilian colleague of mine, who has been living in europe for some years now, the subject of Brazil's crisis popped up. He told me that, at least when compared with the economic crisis e…

Too bad you got downvoted for exposing this anecdote. Not everyone views it like that (sadly).

Re: Brasília at Midnight

#33

Post by brbrodude »

hackernews2000 wrote: post #20
ittekimasu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone wants their own government tit to suck from. That is the general schema by which statist ("socialist") regimes hang on to power... that is until they have inflated themselves out of existence.

Yet people are conditioned in schools to love the state and hate the "all evil" capitalism. In Brazil it's political suicide to suggest cutting government expenses such as bloated programs and agencies (even though they are known to be infested by corruption). People are hit hard by our extremely high taxes but don't make the connection to the government inefficacy and corruption. They keep asking for more government…

Perfect reading and reproduction of the market-fundamentalist-pamphlet! Who are you to call anyone brainwashed? Talking in truisms, uncharitable to any disagreeing point of view, turning anyone who opposes your points of view into caricatures. Give me a break.

Re: Brasília at Midnight

#34

Post by rafaelferreira »

As another Brazillian, let me offer an attempt at a more distanced take on the matter. Roussef's impeachment proceedings are motivated by alleged budget manipulation. I don't think there are many who would say the maneuvers in question were 100% kosher, but the question of whether it is a sound basis for impeaching an elected president is not a simple one. Renowned legal scholars differ on this point.

In particular, it is clear the congress voted for her ousting due to a series of reasons unrelated to the allegations. One reason is the dismal state of the economy, likely due in no small part to Roussef's policy decisions. Another reason is that a majority of politicians, from all major parties, are facing serious corruption charges from a large, unprecedented, investigation conducted by the federal police, and the impeachment acts as a diversionaty tactic (there are recordings proving this is not a conspiracy theory). Lastly, there is the usual power struggle, that is fiercer and more complex in an environment with many political parties.

In all, a complex scenario that does not bode well for the immediate future of the Brazilllian democracy.

Re: Brasília at Midnight

#35

Post by brbrodude »

olh wrote: post #3

This article is spot on. There is an important detail that sounds like conspiracy theory and that bothers me as a brazilian: much of the extent of the economical crisis was orchestrated with propaganda by sectors of our society engulfed in corruption charges (from briberies to tax evasion) after the global drop in commodities prices and suddenly investments halted by market fear and a real crisis took place (and then…

Rightists like to oversimplify and make it as if anyone who disagrees with them is brainwashed and stupid, I think it's a shame. The biggest problem to me is that the political crisis only use it seems will be to hand power over to the other side, without fixing or changing anything, the corruption will stay the same and the little reforms that led us here are gonna be rolled back, the new ones in power are sure to work in the way of deepening the status-quo and making it harder for this to happen again(BUT without fixing it!). There's that quote that says "never waste a good crisis"... It's exactly what's going on and the most ignorant are unable to see it because any kind of contradiction means you're "brainwashed communist PTista". So fucking dumb.

Re: Brasília at Midnight

#36

Post by forinti »

rafaelferreira wrote: post #34

As another Brazillian, let me offer an attempt at a more distanced take on the matter. Roussef's impeachment proceedings are motivated by alleged budget manipulation. I don't think there are many who would say the maneuvers in question were 100% kosher, but the question of whether it is a sound basis for impeaching an elected president is not a simple one. Renowned legal scholars differ on this point. In particular,…

I am not an economist, but it seems to me that Brazil's economic woes originated in the private sector. It simply became too leveraged in the boom years of Lula's government and couldn't handle the aftermath of the 2008 crash.

Dilma, on her part, gave in to the austerity camp (both left and right can't seem to give up this mentality) and made matters worse. In part, this was driven by inflation fear mongering by the media.

Re: Brasília at Midnight

#37

Post by meira »

brbrodude wrote: post #33
hackernews2000 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet people are conditioned in schools to love the state and hate the "all evil" capitalism. In Brazil it's political suicide to suggest cutting government expenses such as bloated programs and agencies (even though they are known to be infested by corruption). People are hit hard by our extremely high taxes but don't make the connection to the government inefficacy and corruption. They keep asking for more government…

Perfect reading and reproduction of the market-fundamentalist-pamphlet! Who are you to call anyone brainwashed? Talking in truisms, uncharitable to any disagreeing point of view, turning anyone who opposes your points of view into caricatures. Give me a break.

It's funny how idiots here in Brazil thinks that the neoliberalism BS is a serious econômica thesis. Parent post probably studied in a federal university, but hates "big bad state".

Re: Brasília at Midnight

#38

Post by forinti »

olh wrote: post #3

This article is spot on. There is an important detail that sounds like conspiracy theory and that bothers me as a brazilian: much of the extent of the economical crisis was orchestrated with propaganda by sectors of our society engulfed in corruption charges (from briberies to tax evasion) after the global drop in commodities prices and suddenly investments halted by market fear and a real crisis took place (and then…

What makes it clear to me that it is a coup is that the provisional government plans to implement policies and pass legislation that would never have a chance in an election.

Re: Brasília at Midnight

#39

Post by meira »

andrenth wrote: post #17
caiob wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> _What kind of coups is done with ample defense opportunity and full validation of the Supreme Court?_ Ermmm.. defense opportunity? A totally partisan-biased Supreme Court does not leave much for a defense strategy. That's like putting Benghazi to be judged by the GOP. >_It's funny because in 92 the same politicians who are now claiming a coup is going on have voted in favor of impeachment_ Maybe because they're bei…

> Ermmm.. defense opportunity? Yes. Multiple opportunities for the defense to expose its views and interview witnesses, both in congress and senate. > A totally partisan-biased Supreme Court The majority of the current Supreme Court has been appointed by in the Lula and Dilma governments and are strongly tied to their party, including a former lawyer of a party member who is now in jail. If there's any bias, it's in…

The defense had N opportunities to proof (and they proved) that Rousseff didn't commit any crime. But it doesn't matter, because it's not a real judgement. It's a theatrical judgement for stupid guys like you to have a justificativa. But yeah, no stupid personagens believe it. It was a coup. And I should have Said, in the beginning, first thing: Temer out.

Re: Brasília at Midnight

#40

Post by meira »

andrenth wrote: post #10

As a Brazilian I can say this article is full of misinformation regarding current political events. The "coup" allegations are nothing but ridiculous. What kind of coups is done with ample defense opportunity and full validation of the Supreme Court? There's nothing flimsy about the fiscal fraud committed by the soon to be former president. And while this is not being considered for the impeachment process (because i…

I like how in Brazil the ones that really suck in government tits are the riches, but their sons keep coming here in HN to Tell that the problema is the expending with the poors.
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