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How to listen when you disagree

urbanconfessional.org

141–150 of 192 posts

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#141
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> merely using emotion in their logic. Truth often goes deeper than facts and logic.

Could you please explain how truth goes deeper than facts? I am missing something

To take a stab at it, parent was talking about the difference between wisdom and intelligence. Or that there may be many facts which are applicable to a situation -- indeed, so many that various subsets can be used to justify a multitude of different responses!

Discerning which facts and therefore which course of action to take often involves a judgement call, a portion of which is attempting to know all applicable parties as individuals.

The portion in the original journal entry about filter bubbles and excising dissent from our daily experience speaks to this.

We cannot make wise decisions without knowing as much as possible about both those who disagree with us as well as those who agree with us. Because sometimes the "why" or "how" is as intellectually valuable as the "what".

(Not always, but more than none by a bunch!)

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#143
While I agree with the overall sentiment, people ought to have to earn the privilege of being listened to by meeting a higher standard of reasonableness, self-awareness, and intellectual responsibility than that.

The woman was unable herself to have children, so she latches onto the view that those who are able but choose termination are unethical killers. She manufactures further rationalization: "it's not right to go out and sleep with whoever, then just vacuum away the result like it never happened." This is just word salad. She openly throws out, "it's just not right! it's just wrong!" like that's somehow sufficient. Her view is driven by a preadolescent's petulant self-absorption and she takes no responsibility for self-correction.

I reject wholesale the idea that personal suffering gives people an excuse, a warrant, to hold petty, juvenile views that inhibit the freedom of others. Life itself consists largely of suffering. People who insist on throwing an eight year old's intellectual tantrum don't need the megaphone they're already given.

If the author's merely saying that open listening and compassion, in and of themselves, are valuable, then certainly: it's important to be open to foreign views. But petulant self-absorption isn't a view. It's not a window into any meaningful aspect of the universe. It's outright condescending to extend it sympathy.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#144
post #143

While I agree with the overall sentiment, people ought to have to earn the privilege of being listened to by meeting a higher standard of reasonableness, self-awareness, and intellectual responsibility than that. The woman was unable herself to have children, so she latches onto the view that those who are able but choose termination are unethical killers. She manufactures further rationalization: "it's not right to…

This story seems to be a bit of a rorschach test. It seems that the primary rejection of what the author observed and described is preoccupied with correctness of ideas, while those of us who it touched are preoccupied with understanding why people think the way that they do.

I too reject all manner of irrational and harmful views, but I'm concerned with why so many of those views prevail. Understanding why people come to hurt one another is at the center of my attention, because I think that understanding is ammunition in reducing those tendencies.

Simply demilitarizing disagreement can go a long way toward reducing the kinds of friction that prevent people from learning and growing when they're wrong.

And more importantly, being correct is not the same as not being subject to personal growth. It's a tremendous waste to go through life knowing information that could be valuable to others and to be unable or unwilling to communicate that information to others who don't share it.

Empathy is how politics and people move together.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#145
post #143

While I agree with the overall sentiment, people ought to have to earn the privilege of being listened to by meeting a higher standard of reasonableness, self-awareness, and intellectual responsibility than that. The woman was unable herself to have children, so she latches onto the view that those who are able but choose termination are unethical killers. She manufactures further rationalization: "it's not right to…

This story seems to be a bit of a rorschach test. It seems that the primary rejection of what the author observed and described is preoccupied with correctness of ideas, while those of us who it touched are preoccupied with understanding why people think the way that they do. I too reject all manner of irrational and harmful views, but I'm concerned with why so many of those views prevail. Understanding why people co…

Fair enough, especially this bit:

> Simply demilitarizing disagreement can go a long way toward reducing the kinds of friction that prevent people from learning and growing when they're wrong.

Here's my attempt at reconciliation. I would support all of the following: withholding hostility; understanding that understanding something is not the same as condoning it; having empathy for everyone; understanding that everyone has their own reason for how they are; and making atmospheres seem less threatening to encourage more people to come forward.

But I remain slightly suspicious of the feeling of sympathy toward the world view described in the article. Empathy, certainly. But I still say it's condescending to pity someone like that before they've taken the slightest steps toward self-correction.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#146
post #102

I love the sentiment that the author was trying to convey. The example that was provided was beautiful. It is really important to realize that usually it does not work out as beautifully as was presented in this particular example. My experience in active listening is that perhaps 1 out of 20 times do you get a good outcome as was the case in this example. Generally, the person will simply yell things at you about th…

I also found it interesting that this article is hugely concerned with making someone feel loved for expressing a desire to literally have everybody killed who had an abortion. I think at some point, the severity of an ideology has to outweigh the desire to accept a person as who they are. We have been somewhat culturally conditioned by the common tropes of storytelling that biography excuses, and in fact makes accep…

> I also found it interesting that this article is hugely concerned with making someone feel loved for expressing a desire to literally have everybody killed who had an abortion. I think at some point, the severity of an ideology has to outweigh the desire to accept a person as who they are.

If you are faced with a world that is hostile to your worldview, and you want to move people closer to it, do you think you'll be more effective by disregarding their motivations and telling them how wrong they are? Or by coming to understand what motivates them and having a conversation as peers?

While ideologies may propel any number of evils, by and large people are not themselves evil. They're just complicated and conflicted and sometimes ignorant, with a lot of motivations and incentives that are not always immediately obvious, and a ton of baggage.

Humble empathy isn't the same as immunizing bad ideas from criticism. Communication doesn't have to be combat.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#147
I have always hated the idea that it's the communicators job to make sure people understand them.

This is of course true in any professional setting like advertising, PR etc.

But in a debate between two parties this insistence and demand is killing most possibilities of actually having a debate.

The first problem is that if someone is arguing from a position we have predujize against we will be interpreting the worst possible intent of what is being said while if it's something we agree with we are much more forgiving when interpreting.

So we are biased either against hearing the argument or from hearing the flaws depending on whether we agree with the original stance of the argument.

So much potential for actually learning something is lost because of the idea that it's only up to the communicator to make sure they are understood. So many insights are lost from demanding other people make themselves understandable rather than trying to understand what they are trying to say.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#148
post #102

I love the sentiment that the author was trying to convey. The example that was provided was beautiful. It is really important to realize that usually it does not work out as beautifully as was presented in this particular example. My experience in active listening is that perhaps 1 out of 20 times do you get a good outcome as was the case in this example. Generally, the person will simply yell things at you about th…

I also found it interesting that this article is hugely concerned with making someone feel loved for expressing a desire to literally have everybody killed who had an abortion. I think at some point, the severity of an ideology has to outweigh the desire to accept a person as who they are. We have been somewhat culturally conditioned by the common tropes of storytelling that biography excuses, and in fact makes accep…

It's not saying the other person's beliefs are justified, it's saying that if you want to change their beliefs, you have to understand how they got there in the first place. If you approach it like a logical debate you're not going to convince anyone. It's not about saying all the facts, it's about helping people reprocess their feelings into more reasonable conclusions.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#149
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story seems to be a bit of a rorschach test. It seems that the primary rejection of what the author observed and described is preoccupied with correctness of ideas, while those of us who it touched are preoccupied with understanding why people think the way that they do. I too reject all manner of irrational and harmful views, but I'm concerned with why so many of those views prevail. Understanding why people co…

Fair enough, especially this bit: > Simply demilitarizing disagreement can go a long way toward reducing the kinds of friction that prevent people from learning and growing when they're wrong. Here's my attempt at reconciliation. I would support all of the following: withholding hostility; understanding that understanding something is not the same as condoning it; having empathy for everyone; understanding that every…

I have to admit that I was brought to tears reading her story. I don't sympathize with her opinion on abortion, I strongly disagree with it. But I felt her hardship and her candor when offered space to admit her personal motivations. I felt them despite being unmoved from my own opinions.

I also have to admit that I haven't always been self aware enough to make healthy corrections for my own beliefs and attitudes. 100% of those times, I've grown more with the support of people who showed care and compassion despite the flaws in my reaction to the world I find myself in.

I have to constantly remind myself that we're all in a wilderness. Nothing of importance comes easy to everyone. Nearly every person can grow, given the right conditions. And working toward making those conditions available to more people is worthwhile.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#150
post #73

"Hear the Biography, not the ideology" This is just another way of attacking someone else's position, with the added bonus of letting you be intolerably smug while you do it. You're not communicating in good faith unless you're willing to concede the possibility that the other person is actually right about something. At the very least you need to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. This, on the othe…

It's really not quite so complicated. The technique espoused by the OP is a humble one, intended to build empathy, which it seems to me are two traits with considerable intrinsic value.
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