How to listen when you disagree • Hacker News Board

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#11

Post by bamboo_7 » Thu, Aug 04, 2016, 9:39 PM UTC

zzalpha wrote: post #5

Eh, perhaps I'm cynical, but listening to someone, and coming to understanding regarding how they might have developed there beliefs, sounds nice, and it's very compassionate, but I question if it's actually a step toward compromise, or simply understanding. After all, for an increasing number of issues, in the end, the beliefs themselves are so polarized they leave no room for compromise. To this woman, it doesn't m…

I think you said it yourself that understanding is an important first step....

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#12

Post by whiddershins » Thu, Aug 04, 2016, 9:39 PM UTC

zzalpha wrote: post #5

Eh, perhaps I'm cynical, but listening to someone, and coming to understanding regarding how they might have developed there beliefs, sounds nice, and it's very compassionate, but I question if it's actually a step toward compromise, or simply understanding. After all, for an increasing number of issues, in the end, the beliefs themselves are so polarized they leave no room for compromise. To this woman, it doesn't m…

It was hard for me to resist the urge to downvote this comment. Yes, everything you are saying has merit, but overall I completely disagree with the main thrust of your point.

If listening and understanding other people isn't the first step to working through these problems, nothing is. And I am unwilling to just call the problems unfixable, throw my hands up, and resign myself to a world full of such misunderstanding, recrimination, and pain.

I make a serious effort to nurture relationships with people who hold beliefs very different from mine, some of these beliefs I even consider ethically flawed, or counterfactual.

And yet I get so much out of talking and especially listening to these people explain their beliefs to me. I feel grateful to have the opportunity to see the world through other lenses, and I have learned and grown as a result.

If more people did this, I like to imagine that the timbre of discussion would change from default contempt to something far better.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#13

Post by seangrant » Thu, Aug 04, 2016, 9:40 PM UTC

This format was very hard to read for me

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#14

Post by maxxxxx » Thu, Aug 04, 2016, 9:40 PM UTC

zzalpha wrote: post #5

Eh, perhaps I'm cynical, but listening to someone, and coming to understanding regarding how they might have developed there beliefs, sounds nice, and it's very compassionate, but I question if it's actually a step toward compromise, or simply understanding. After all, for an increasing number of issues, in the end, the beliefs themselves are so polarized they leave no room for compromise. To this woman, it doesn't m…

That's the purpose of wedge issues. It's a deliberate act by parties to make compromise impossible.

When I am in good mood I just try to understand their position and store it as piece of information. Trying to convince someone is pretty hopeless.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#15

Post by SCdF » Thu, Aug 04, 2016, 9:43 PM UTC

zzalpha wrote: post #5

Eh, perhaps I'm cynical, but listening to someone, and coming to understanding regarding how they might have developed there beliefs, sounds nice, and it's very compassionate, but I question if it's actually a step toward compromise, or simply understanding. After all, for an increasing number of issues, in the end, the beliefs themselves are so polarized they leave no room for compromise. To this woman, it doesn't m…

Maybe the point isn't about compromise in a belief system, or about changing people's minds. Maybe it's about prioritising understanding, compassion and sharing over the adversarial thrust and parry of argument and debate, and letting people change their own minds.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#16

Post by throwanem » Thu, Aug 04, 2016, 9:45 PM UTC

zzalpha wrote: post #8

throwanem wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So hey, why bother trying, right?

Or you could provide a counter-argument so we can have a discussion. Kinda making my point for me. :)

Just like you're making mine, and the article author's. Listening is a lot harder than contempt, but you might think about trying it some time all the same.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#17

Post by ploxiln » Thu, Aug 04, 2016, 9:45 PM UTC

So you're saying, basically, we should "put words in their mouth".

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#18

Post by enraged_camel » Thu, Aug 04, 2016, 9:45 PM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #12

zzalpha wrote: post #5

Eh, perhaps I'm cynical, but listening to someone, and coming to understanding regarding how they might have developed there beliefs, sounds nice, and it's very compassionate, but I question if it's actually a step toward compromise, or simply understanding. After all, for an increasing number of issues, in the end, the beliefs themselves are so polarized they leave no room for compromise. To this woman, it doesn't m…

It was hard for me to resist the urge to downvote this comment. Yes, everything you are saying has merit, but overall I completely disagree with the main thrust of your point. If listening and understanding other people isn't the first step to working through these problems, nothing is. And I am unwilling to just call the problems unfixable, throw my hands up, and resign myself to a world full of such misunderstandin…

>>If listening and understanding other people isn't the first step to working through these problems, nothing is.

It is the first step, but it only works if the other side is also willing to take it with you. If you are the only one changing your position, it is not a mutual compromise, by definition.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#19

Post by noobiemcfoob » Thu, Aug 04, 2016, 9:45 PM UTC

zzalpha wrote: post #5

Eh, perhaps I'm cynical, but listening to someone, and coming to understanding regarding how they might have developed there beliefs, sounds nice, and it's very compassionate, but I question if it's actually a step toward compromise, or simply understanding. After all, for an increasing number of issues, in the end, the beliefs themselves are so polarized they leave no room for compromise. To this woman, it doesn't m…

What you can say, at least, is that it is a step that brings understanding.

Often, but not always, that understanding can illuminate an acceptable compromise.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#20

Post by chki » Thu, Aug 04, 2016, 9:46 PM UTC

zzalpha wrote: post #5

Eh, perhaps I'm cynical, but listening to someone, and coming to understanding regarding how they might have developed there beliefs, sounds nice, and it's very compassionate, but I question if it's actually a step toward compromise, or simply understanding. After all, for an increasing number of issues, in the end, the beliefs themselves are so polarized they leave no room for compromise. To this woman, it doesn't m…

I don't see how this wouldn't be a step towards understanding another person: more information should always help you to grasp somebody else's line of thought.

I think you are right that understanding is really far away from compromise, especially if your conversational counterpart is obviously having a very non-rational standpoint. But isn't it still better to "understand" them and wouldn't it be easier for you to work out something if you don't think the person you are talking to is actually just crazy or unintelligent? In the given example: would you say the situation was "better" before the unexpected question or afterwards? And is there really another question to ask that could provide a more positive outcome? I would personally not think so, but maybe I'm just not understanding you completely.. :)