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Ask HN: How do I write a resume after five years of a startup?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I write a resume after five years of a startup?

#111

Post by dpark »

raverbashing wrote: post #101
jmtulloss wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former hiring manager at a company that got way more resumes than qualified candidates (Rdio), I totally disagree with this. Candidates have to be able to communicate why they are good at what they do concisely, otherwise their resume won't even make it to the hiring managers inboxes at most companies. This is pretty similar to the elevator pitch for a startup. I'm amazed that anybody has a hard time keeping the…

> has a hard time keeping their resume to a single page Last time I did that I got complaints that my CV was not detailed enough

I am not clear why people think a resume needs to be one page. I tend to prefer about two pages. That's enough room to list where you worked along with the highlights. One page normally means just a list of employers and almost no detail. Three pages typically feels rambling or padded.

I don't consider a resume and a CV to be equivalent, though. A CV is generally a lot more exhaustive than a resume. I would put together a CV if and only if applying for a research or academic position.

Re: Ask HN: How do I write a resume after five years of a startup?

#112

Post by angryasian »

lloyd-christmas wrote: post #109
angryasian wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this at all. As developers we should always be looking out for our best interests. If you think you can find something better for more money do it. The whole idea of company loyalty is bs in my opinion. They generally aren't loyal to you.

You're the type of person I don't hire: > As developers Developers aren't special. They are a profession which doesn't even necessitate advanced degrees/certifications like most other high-pay industries (med/law/finance/engineering). This instantly comes across as self-importance. > we should always be looking out for our best interests Sure, but not at the expense of my company. I'm assuming you have some experienc…

agree you can replace the word developers with any other term. The difference is that developers are in very high demand right now. We should take advantage of the environment while we can.

>not at the expense of my company.

I'm sorry, we're all mercenaries for hire. What will you do for me if your company needs to do layoffs or is closing ? Theres more cases where companies hire and layoff fast or screw over employees than those that actually care about the employees.

>It's about hiring useful employees that don't cost you money

I admit its hard to measure the direct benefit to revenue over those 6 months, but I would argue these figures.

Re: Ask HN: How do I write a resume after five years of a startup?

#113

Post by derefr »

eru wrote: post #84
derefr wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boy, what I'd give for a career trajectory that looks like that. But I'm not moving to the US any time soon (my family is quite happy here), and my local market caps out at ~$110k for "senior" devs. It's annoyingly hard to find remote jobs working for US firms that pay US salaries.

Apparently you wouldn't give enough.. I'm not in the US, and not an American citizen, but I got a similar trajectory from moving around globally. (Not a criticism of you, just saying that you made your choice.)

Honestly, a "choice" between a pay-raise and a marriage isn't much of a choice.

Re: Ask HN: How do I write a resume after five years of a startup?

#114

Post by gorbachev »

jmtulloss wrote: post #63
gorbachev wrote: post #6

Do you know your shit? If yes, you have nothing to worry about. If no, work on that. There're so many unqualified job candidates out there, you can rise above the crowd just by being good at what you do.

As a former hiring manager at a company that got way more resumes than qualified candidates (Rdio), I totally disagree with this. Candidates have to be able to communicate why they are good at what they do concisely, otherwise their resume won't even make it to the hiring managers inboxes at most companies. This is pretty similar to the elevator pitch for a startup. I'm amazed that anybody has a hard time keeping the…

Resume is not the only, or even the best, way to get an interview.

Re: Ask HN: How do I write a resume after five years of a startup?

#115

Post by LyndsySimon »

lloyd-christmas wrote: post #109
angryasian wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this at all. As developers we should always be looking out for our best interests. If you think you can find something better for more money do it. The whole idea of company loyalty is bs in my opinion. They generally aren't loyal to you.

You're the type of person I don't hire: > As developers Developers aren't special. They are a profession which doesn't even necessitate advanced degrees/certifications like most other high-pay industries (med/law/finance/engineering). This instantly comes across as self-importance. > we should always be looking out for our best interests Sure, but not at the expense of my company. I'm assuming you have some experienc…

> So If I'm paying you a salary of $100k, In six months I've actually spent $150k. When you put the numbers on paper, anyone viewing them would call me an idiot.

What I see is that the person's salary is not the biggest part of their total cost to you as an employer, particularly in the first year or two when you're amortizing out your acquisition cost. If you're paying them $100k, six months in your total cost is $150k. If they are qualified for a job at another company that pays $150k, perhaps you should have bumped their salary to the $150k that is apparently the market value of their labor - after all, is it better to spend $150k and lose that employee to someone paying them 50% more, or to spend $175k and have that third-party offer not be attractive to them?

Re: Ask HN: How do I write a resume after five years of a startup?

#116

Post by lloyd-christmas »

angryasian wrote: post #112
lloyd-christmas wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're the type of person I don't hire: > As developers Developers aren't special. They are a profession which doesn't even necessitate advanced degrees/certifications like most other high-pay industries (med/law/finance/engineering). This instantly comes across as self-importance. > we should always be looking out for our best interests Sure, but not at the expense of my company. I'm assuming you have some experienc…

agree you can replace the word developers with any other term. The difference is that developers are in very high demand right now. We should take advantage of the environment while we can. >not at the expense of my company. I'm sorry, we're all mercenaries for hire. What will you do for me if your company needs to do layoffs or is closing ? Theres more cases where companies hire and layoff fast or screw over employe…

> I'm sorry, we're all mercenaries for hire.

Most people I know don't have this view. Ask around and you'll be surprised at how few people think this way. You'll probably get this perspective only if your job IS contracting, e.g. designers.

> What will you do for me if your company needs to do layoffs or is closing

Most companies have some form of severance, and it's typically more than enough to keep you going during your job search. Since you've mentioned how in demand we are, it shouldn't be of any concern.

> I would argue these figures.

Here's a good read:

http://web.mit.edu/e-club/hadzima/pdf/how-much-does-an-emplo...

My father does physician hiring. His costs run 4-5x salary.

Lets run some numbers:

Imagine I cost my company $50 an hour in salary, and earn them $150 an hour (revenue of 3-5x salary is ballpark for most companies, we'll go for the low end for some perspective). As a senior dev, I have to sit in all the interviews of people potentially joining my team. Imagine we have 10 people that make it through the HR round. I have to participate in 10 interviews, and then likely 3 more for the final round.

My cost for round 2 is: 10 people x 2 hours x (150 lost revenue + 50 salary paid) = $4k

My cost for round 3 is: 3 x 8 x (150 + 50) = $4.8k

My company has already dropped $8.8k on my involvement solely in the interview room for your typical entry level position. This doesn't even include my involvement in onboarding, training, pre-interview prep, post-interview review, etc. This is also JUST ME, and a very lowball figure at that. Now factor in the cost of the HR round, recruiters, background checks, the other devs in the interviews with me, etc. It adds up very, very quickly.

Moral of the story: People are expensive and it's really not all that difficult to quantify it.

Re: Ask HN: How do I write a resume after five years of a startup?

#117

Post by lloyd-christmas »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #115
lloyd-christmas wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're the type of person I don't hire: > As developers Developers aren't special. They are a profession which doesn't even necessitate advanced degrees/certifications like most other high-pay industries (med/law/finance/engineering). This instantly comes across as self-importance. > we should always be looking out for our best interests Sure, but not at the expense of my company. I'm assuming you have some experienc…

> So If I'm paying you a salary of $100k, In six months I've actually spent $150k. When you put the numbers on paper, anyone viewing them would call me an idiot. What I see is that the person's salary is not the biggest part of their total cost to you as an employer, particularly in the first year or two when you're amortizing out your acquisition cost. If you're paying them $100k, six months in your total cost is $1…

> What I see is that the person's salary is not the biggest part of their total cost to you as an employer

This is exactly why salaries are pretty negotiable.

> If they are qualified for a job at another company that pays $150k

We address this once a week on HN. People don't pay for qualifications, they pay for most recent salary. They'd still stick around for 6 months and then look for their next 10% bump. A "6 months here and there" person isn't magically going to change their perspective on life just because they finally had the opportunity to work for me! People that are willing to stick around typically aren't just using me for their "my last salary was...", and they are much more likely to get salary bumps within (which does actually happen, contrary to popular belief).

Re: Ask HN: How do I write a resume after five years of a startup?

#118

Post by flukus »

lloyd-christmas wrote: post #108
eropple wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels to me like a rationale for trying to get something for nothing, to be honest. Why would a quality engineer with an understanding of their worth stay at a company for two years when the next company's offering 20% more after twelve months? "Make hay while the sun shines."

Why would I spend money hiring and training someone that I expect to leave before they contribute anything significant? Contrary to what most people think of themselves, they aren't capable of hitting the ground running. This is even more important in a senior dev position where they need to know how everyone under them actually performs. I don't hire monkeys, I hire employees. They should be a benefit to each other…

If they can't contribute anything significant in 6 months then that's a problem with the company.

Re: Ask HN: How do I write a resume after five years of a startup?

#119

Post by eru »

derefr wrote: post #113
eru wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently you wouldn't give enough.. I'm not in the US, and not an American citizen, but I got a similar trajectory from moving around globally. (Not a criticism of you, just saying that you made your choice.)

Honestly, a "choice" between a pay-raise and a marriage isn't much of a choice.

It is a choice, just an exceptionally easy one. Most of the important decisions in life are actually easy to make, I think. (Just sometimes hard to live with.)

I took my marriage with me. But she knew from the start what she was in for.

Re: Ask HN: How do I write a resume after five years of a startup?

#120

Post by toadi »

cableshaft wrote: post #28
lloyd-christmas wrote: post #4

> So, how does one communicate that they are hirable after running a semi-successful startup for years The fact that you've held a job for more than just 6 month stints is enough to push you all the way to the front of the line. Most applicants we see just do 6 months here and there. I refuse to hire anyone that hasn't stayed at a company at least 2 years (excluding new grads). 4 years is pretty much a unicorn nowada…

Here's what the last 6 years of my resume look like: * 1.5 years - Startup I joined crashed and burned * 0.5 years - Contract work for web design firm while I went back to university, they couldn't get their clients to pay their invoices * 1.0 years - Worked for the university while I finished my degree * 1.0 years - Startup I joined crashed and burned * 1.5 years - Small company that was doing well, but proceeded to…

I work on projects not on jobs. Meaning I develop something bring it life and handover to operations. This means I work on projects taking 3 months to 3 years. It all depends.

I don't care about jobs. I just like to build things. 99% of my projects I work until delivery. Even when I hate it.

This is the reason I always say don't like to the time I worked for something. I finnish and deliver.

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