Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Surprising Psychology of Impressiveness

calnewport.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 55 posts

Re: The Surprising Psychology of Impressiveness

#31

Post by endtime »

This is particularly exaggerated among Stanford undergrads, presumably by intent of the admissions department. I didn't do my undergrad at Stanford, but I've heard many stories from undergrad friends about the guy down the hall who didn't seem particularly outstanding or bright, until he turned out to be e.g. the #2 model airplane builder in the world. This line in particular stood out to me:

>Admissions officers would agree. They’re not looking to build hardworking and diligent classes. Instead, they want to build classes that are interesting.

The emphasis on this elusive impressive/unusual quality over raw academic prowess also explains the quality of some of the problem sets I've graded...but then, doing well on problem sets and starting successful companies (or becoming an outlier by some other metric of success) are completely different things. Stanford optimizes for the latter.

Re: The Surprising Psychology of Impressiveness

#32

Post by aphyr »

underover wrote: post #14
aphyr wrote: post #8

I thought Steve was impressive because he was uncommon. By definition, every high school with a track team has a captain of the track team; you're likely to see hundreds of Davids in a given college admissions department. It's much less likely that you'll encounter someone who worked with an NGO or the UN--even if Steve's abilities or perserverance weren't exceptional. Still, I think there's something to the model. I…

By definition, every high school with a track team has a captain of the track team; I agree with your point, but this sentence is not true.

Correction: it is highly probable that they will have a captain. :)

Re: The Surprising Psychology of Impressiveness

#33

Post by naturalethic »

wakeupthedawn wrote: post #22
melling wrote: post #2

I picked David because his achievements seemed more concrete. The "marketing" and "sustainability" stuff sounded like fluff to me. I didn't read much more of the article after I found out he chose the other guy.

As someone who actually goes to top school, I cannot even fathom how someone would think that being captain of a track team and learning calligraphy would be more impressive than lobby U.N. delegates. Track captains are a dime a dozen and there is nothing "impressive" about signing up for calligraphy class. Maybe those were the easy classes at his school - I don't know. But there's nothing inherently impressive about…

People who praise globalist government agendas area dime a dozen.

Re: The Surprising Psychology of Impressiveness

#34

Post by nostrademons »

sharms wrote: post #27
wakeupthedawn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who actually goes to top school, I cannot even fathom how someone would think that being captain of a track team and learning calligraphy would be more impressive than lobby U.N. delegates. Track captains are a dime a dozen and there is nothing "impressive" about signing up for calligraphy class. Maybe those were the easy classes at his school - I don't know. But there's nothing inherently impressive about…

In a world of 7 billion people, you will find that just about everyone is a dime a dozen. To use your own words, the following is equally as true: there is nothing "impressive" about signing up to lobby the U.N. as an unpaid intern. Show me a student making real money, and that is actually valued by the free market, and I will be impressed.

"Show me a student making real money, and that is actually valued by the free market, and I will be impressed."

I think posts like this actually reinforce the article's meta-point, which is that people are impressed by accomplishments that fit with the person's values where it's not obvious how to accomplish them.

You (and many other readers of this site) value success in business. Even if you're currently making real money, you probably weren't at age 17, and probably didn't have much of a clue how to at age 17, and so a 17-year-old making real money is impressive.

The football player here values the skills he learned from football, and knows how difficult it was to balance them with scholastic achievement, and so he's impressed by the guy who captained the football team and yet still managed to take calligraphy and get good grades.

The college admission's officer is tasked with assembling a unique, diverse, interesting class. She obviously would not have taken the job if she didn't value uniqueness. And so when somebody shows up that doesn't fit the profile that she sees all day, and has accomplished something a little out of the ordinary, she's impressed.

Don't mistake the specific examples for the general principle. You may not share the same value system as a college admission's officer. Hell, you may not even value college. But you can still use this to impress people who have things that you want.

Re: The Surprising Psychology of Impressiveness

#35

Post by nostrademons »

dgabriel wrote: post #24

With a solid C average coming out of high school, I got into Carnegie Mellon (not Brown, though...), but wound up going to a state school that gave me a free ride for 4 years. There are lots of ways to hack the admissions process, but none of them include Japanese calligraphy (unless you become a cultural ambassador to Japan).

If you believe Steve Jobs, however, one of the ways to hack the PC market very much involved calligraphy.

Re: The Surprising Psychology of Impressiveness

#36

Post by alexgartrell »

nostrademons wrote: post #34
sharms wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a world of 7 billion people, you will find that just about everyone is a dime a dozen. To use your own words, the following is equally as true: there is nothing "impressive" about signing up to lobby the U.N. as an unpaid intern. Show me a student making real money, and that is actually valued by the free market, and I will be impressed.

"Show me a student making real money, and that is actually valued by the free market, and I will be impressed." I think posts like this actually reinforce the article's meta-point, which is that people are impressed by accomplishments that fit with the person's values where it's not obvious how to accomplish them . You (and many other readers of this site) value success in business. Even if you're currently making re…

To be fair it's not that I was a huge fan of the athletic angle, I'd be equally impressed with anything that was a time waster (and even MORE impressed if the person went out of their way to work hard at their real passion). I was more aiming to contradict the parent poster who was under the impression that track was some easy waste of time, unlike the UN stuff.

Re: The Surprising Psychology of Impressiveness

#37

Post by jacobolus »

alexgartrell wrote: post #29
wakeupthedawn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who actually goes to top school, I cannot even fathom how someone would think that being captain of a track team and learning calligraphy would be more impressive than lobby U.N. delegates. Track captains are a dime a dozen and there is nothing "impressive" about signing up for calligraphy class. Maybe those were the easy classes at his school - I don't know. But there's nothing inherently impressive about…

If "David" attended a school that was serious about athletics, getting good grades with the huge commitment of track is so much more impressive than some political BS that "Steve" seemed to get lucky with. As a data point, I got mediocre grades (barely top 10% in my high school class at a pretty run-of-the-mill high school) while playing football (it's a year round commitment) and for some reason Carnegie Mellon chos…

> In all likelihood, "Steve" isn't as mentally tough as "David"

How can you possibly make this kind of speculative judgment on the basis of no further information? “All likelihood”? Give me a break.

I know football players who are mentally tough. I also know football players who are lazy dipshit assholes. The kids in the band, or the theater, or the debate team, or the math club, are no less “mentally tough” than the kids on the football team (unless by “mentally tough” you really mean “physically bulky and imposing” in which case you’re absolutely right).

Re: The Surprising Psychology of Impressiveness

#38

Post by jacobolus »

r00k wrote: post #25
wakeupthedawn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who actually goes to top school, I cannot even fathom how someone would think that being captain of a track team and learning calligraphy would be more impressive than lobby U.N. delegates. Track captains are a dime a dozen and there is nothing "impressive" about signing up for calligraphy class. Maybe those were the easy classes at his school - I don't know. But there's nothing inherently impressive about…

I think your reply would have been a lot more persuasive without "As someone who actually goes to a top school..." It sounds like bragging. And worse: it doesn't do anything for your argument. (And for the record, I agree with you.)

It gives him somewhat more direct insight, having experience with what such students are like. He clearly meant it in that light. What would he possibly get from bragging? (People who go to top schools are a dime a dozen, after all. ;-)

Re: The Surprising Psychology of Impressiveness

#39

Post by alexgartrell »

jacobolus wrote: post #37
alexgartrell wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "David" attended a school that was serious about athletics, getting good grades with the huge commitment of track is so much more impressive than some political BS that "Steve" seemed to get lucky with. As a data point, I got mediocre grades (barely top 10% in my high school class at a pretty run-of-the-mill high school) while playing football (it's a year round commitment) and for some reason Carnegie Mellon chos…

> In all likelihood, "Steve" isn't as mentally tough as "David" How can you possibly make this kind of speculative judgment on the basis of no further information? “All likelihood”? Give me a break. I know football players who are mentally tough. I also know football players who are lazy dipshit assholes. The kids in the band, or the theater, or the debate team, or the math club, are no less “mentally tough” than the…

On one hand I have evidence that "David" can force himself to train (which, for track athletes, involves running miles in all kinds of terrible weather, often until they throw up). Alternatively, "Steve" sent some emails, did some networking, and ended up in a couple sweet positions.

What I meant by "All likelihood" is that, given the information provided, I would wager more on David's mental toughness than on Steve.

What is unfair about me making that judgement based on the evidence provided?

Re: The Surprising Psychology of Impressiveness

#40

Post by jacobolus »

nostrademons wrote: post #17
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just that he picked the other guy, he expects everyone to agree with him, and yet like you I chose the "wrong" guy. Explaining the "amazing" reason that everyone picks his choice seems much less impressive at that point, particularly as it mostly seems like an ad for a book. Does anyone actually talk like this (from the comments): It’s interesting that you mention science fairs. I actually have a chapter in…

I suspect that Hacker News has a bit of selection bias, in that most of the people here are driven, success-oriented individuals who'd like to believe that hard work makes a difference. We've already read all the articles about how success comes from diligence and practice, and that feats that seem superhuman are just the result of focused effort over time. In my personal experience, the majority of people do not thi…

> passed 8 AP tests without taking a single AP class

Passing AP tests is impressive? Whoa.

Post reply on HN