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Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

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Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#31

Post by paulyg »

lfowles wrote: post #10
chrisseaton wrote: post #3

> the notoriously difficult college math class, Calculus I Are college courses in the United States standardised? Does every college have a course they call Calculus I and have the same content and level of difficulty? Calculus seems to be a really big deal in the US education system. In the UK we learn about differentiation and integration in what you would call highschool as just another topic among many, and I don…

Calc 1 in college is a common weed-out class.

This. I took Calc 1 twice. First time was during the day in a big auditorium style classroom. The prof had a pompous attitude, like he didn't even want to be there. I dropped the class mid-term. I re-took it in the evening. Smaller class size, mostly "non-traditional" students. Prof was awesome. Frequently stopped the lesson to re-explain things and made sure everyone was understanding, stayed after class to help students. Because of that class I actually "got" calculus.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#32

Post by yummyfajitas »

kevhito wrote: post #11
imgabe wrote: post #4

> The findings suggest that a major factor in women’s decisions to leave STEM paths after Calculus I have nothing to do with ability, but confidence in their ability. (Though this particular study did not examine students’ grades in the class, a 2015 paper about college math concluded that women outperform men in Calc I.) I don't understand. They have no confidence, yet they outperform the men? So, they take the clas…

It makes sense to me, based on my own limited personal experience as a college prof (teaching CS). Particularly for our intro classes, it's fairly common for a male student to struggle all semester and scrape by with a D-, then without hesitation declare his intention to be a CS major. At the same time, a female will get a B or A- and walk away apparently thinking "I guess I'm just not good at this and CS just isn't…

Does that male student actually become a STEM practitioner, or do they just flunk out at a later date than the female? It's unclear that female behavior here is what needs to be fixed. Perhaps men should drop out more.

Another possibility is that both behaviors are correct responses to different incentives. Males generally have far lower social value than females, so for the male it might be STEM or bust. In contrast, the female has options like moving into a non-competitive profession and then get married to an engineer/lawyer/doctor/banker. So for the female, the marginal value of STEM over her next best choice might be a lot lower than the male.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#33

Post by lackbeard »

nnq wrote: post #13

Purely anecdotical, but most of the women with a STEM education or interest I've heard from had a strong visceral dislike for calculus and strong attraction towards algebra . And not in the US. And also including mathematics graduates. "I'd take any abstract algebra problem/work anytime, just keep differential equations of all kinds away from me" was smth I've heard once if memory serves well... And at at least in Eu…

But the hard part of calc 1 (for me at least) wasn't the calculus; the concepts are simple. The hard part was figuring out how to apply those concepts to the problem at hand and then grinding through the pages of algebra to get the result.

So, it seems to me that someone with an affinity toward algebra would do just fine.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#34

Post by skolos »

beat wrote: post #24
imgabe wrote: post #4

> The findings suggest that a major factor in women’s decisions to leave STEM paths after Calculus I have nothing to do with ability, but confidence in their ability. (Though this particular study did not examine students’ grades in the class, a 2015 paper about college math concluded that women outperform men in Calc I.) I don't understand. They have no confidence, yet they outperform the men? So, they take the clas…

It's not measuring performance at calculus. It's measuring confidence in performance at calculus . This is where sexism and all those icky social things come into play. Most women have spent their lives up to that point hearing subtle and not-subtle variations of "girls can't math". So even if they're good at it, they tend to believe they aren't. Meanwhile, college-age men tend to be brimming with confidence, walking…

Not sure which is bigger effect here - cultural or physiological. It just can have something to do with testosterone which male students have higher levels than female. Here is an example of article describing effect of testosterone on confidence: http://www.everydayhealth.com/low-testosterone/how-low-testo...

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#35

Post by vonmoltke »

yareally wrote: post #27

After going through 7 or 8 advanced level math courses in college, I noticed there was a dissociation of interests between the teachers and many of their students (90% STEM). Mathematicians might be interested in math because they enjoy math purely for what it is: abstract and theoretical. However, many scientists and engineers just what to know where what they're learning might be useful or applied somewhere in thei…

I think you are on to something. I remember struggling in my math classes (Calculus 2 (Integral), Calculus 3 (Multivariable), and Differential Equations), but doing very well in the major courses that used the same math (Networks, Linear Systems, Electromagnetics, etc.). For me, presenting the math in the context of a concrete application made understanding the principles much easier.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#36

Post by hx87 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #32
kevhito wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense to me, based on my own limited personal experience as a college prof (teaching CS). Particularly for our intro classes, it's fairly common for a male student to struggle all semester and scrape by with a D-, then without hesitation declare his intention to be a CS major. At the same time, a female will get a B or A- and walk away apparently thinking "I guess I'm just not good at this and CS just isn't…

Does that male student actually become a STEM practitioner, or do they just flunk out at a later date than the female? It's unclear that female behavior here is what needs to be fixed. Perhaps men should drop out more. Another possibility is that both behaviors are correct responses to different incentives. Males generally have far lower social value than females, so for the male it might be STEM or bust. In contrast…

> Males generally have far lower social value than females

Probably because men are more willing to marry down socioeconomically, although this is changing and may move further in the direction of equality in the future.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#37

Post by noahmbarr »

edtechdev wrote: post #8

The sad thing is there are already many well-researched strategies for improving the success of all students in calculus and significantly reducing any gaps between student groups. Things like: * Teaching the math in context instead of abstractly. See https://engineering-computer-science.wright.edu/research/eng... * Give students opportunities to learn from one another in groups, using techniques like peer instructio…

Most top US schools don't consider the quality of instruction as a professor's primary objective.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#38

Post by wastedhours »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #32
kevhito wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense to me, based on my own limited personal experience as a college prof (teaching CS). Particularly for our intro classes, it's fairly common for a male student to struggle all semester and scrape by with a D-, then without hesitation declare his intention to be a CS major. At the same time, a female will get a B or A- and walk away apparently thinking "I guess I'm just not good at this and CS just isn't…

Does that male student actually become a STEM practitioner, or do they just flunk out at a later date than the female? It's unclear that female behavior here is what needs to be fixed. Perhaps men should drop out more. Another possibility is that both behaviors are correct responses to different incentives. Males generally have far lower social value than females, so for the male it might be STEM or bust. In contrast…

100% agree that men should also probably drop out more. I did, but many others continued, only becoming disillusioned, frustrated and ending up in completely non-STEM fields in large numbers. That being said, addressing barriers to career choice earlier in life is important so people can start becoming passionate before the opportunity to explore them (at traditional educational stages) passes them by.

Re: Calculus at the heart of the STEM gender gap, study suggests

#40

Post by Xcelerate »

yareally wrote: post #27

After going through 7 or 8 advanced level math courses in college, I noticed there was a dissociation of interests between the teachers and many of their students (90% STEM). Mathematicians might be interested in math because they enjoy math purely for what it is: abstract and theoretical. However, many scientists and engineers just what to know where what they're learning might be useful or applied somewhere in thei…

When I first took linear algebra, the class bored me to tears. It was presented in a dry, unimaginative way. I got an A, but basically rote-memorized everything and then promptly forgot it after the final exam.

Later on, when I started learning quantum mechanics, optimization, and machine learning, linear algebra suddenly became fascinating, and I signed up for a bunch of courses in it. The abstraction isn't what made me dislike the field the first time around; it was the unenthusiastic manner in which it was taught (largely by TAs).

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