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Humpback whales around the globe are mysteriously rescuing animals from orcas

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Re: Humpback whales around the globe are mysteriously rescuing animals from orcas

#21

Post by ObeyTheGuts »

SeanDav wrote: post #13

If I may play Devil's advocate here - it is very easy to anthropomorphize animal behaviour. There are numerous examples in the animal kingdom of animals protecting and even rearing animals from other species. This could be down to genetics and learned behaviour and nothing to do with altruism, or other noble sentiments. Part of me says it is highly unlikely that Humpback whales have a vendetta against killer whales a…

So altruism is not genetics? We share like 90% of same genes with whales, and most of rest 10% of different genes have just small difference, separating humans from animals is just simply stupid.

Re: Humpback whales around the globe are mysteriously rescuing animals from orcas

#22

Post by cygx »

SeanDav wrote: post #13

If I may play Devil's advocate here - it is very easy to anthropomorphize animal behaviour. There are numerous examples in the animal kingdom of animals protecting and even rearing animals from other species. This could be down to genetics and learned behaviour and nothing to do with altruism, or other noble sentiments. Part of me says it is highly unlikely that Humpback whales have a vendetta against killer whales a…

it is very easy to anthropomorphize animal behaviour

It's also very easy to assume humans are more special than we actually are.

Re: Humpback whales around the globe are mysteriously rescuing animals from orcas

#23

Post by gozur88 »

knutae wrote: post #18

Humpback whales apparently have to defend their juveniles against hunting orcas. It is surprising that they would defend other species in the same way, but it seems likely to be the same instinct that causes them to protect their own, rather than altruism. Then again, maybe you could make the same claim about humans. :-)

It doesn't necessarily have to be altruism to make sense. Less for orcas to eat --> fewer orcas --> fewer attacks on humpback calves.

Re: Humpback whales around the globe are mysteriously rescuing animals from orcas

#24

Post by tgarma1234 »

I wish we could have a big long term experiment where maybe we try to teach the whales to let us know if they understand altruism and whether they could be taught to communicate an intention to us directly by flipping a switch to activate lights or something like that. It seems like whales are aware of what they are doing in a deeper way than other animals but we just don't know how to access their intentions through communication.

Re: Humpback whales around the globe are mysteriously rescuing animals from orcas

#25

Post by TeMPOraL »

Frenchgeek wrote: post #9
ajmurmann wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that's what those humans were that fish the whole thing empty and drag nets over the ocean floor.

We're the assholes of the land. We're just so good at it it spill over to the sea too. Let's hope one day we will be assholes in space.

> Let's hope one day we will be assholes in space.

Plot twist! You know that alien space invaders from the movies, who come to Earth to drain all its resources and go somewhere else? That's us from the future! And the head of the invasion is probably some poor space-fisherman saying "sustainability something blah blah, I have to make a living, you know!".

Re: Humpback whales around the globe are mysteriously rescuing animals from orcas

#26

Post by 5xman »

zipwitch wrote: post #11
transfire wrote: post #7

Everyone knows that Orcas are the assholes of the sea.

Only some of them. The transient orca are the ones who eat mammals and don't have large social groupings. The resident orca have larger (matriarchal) social groups and don't eat other mammals , just fish. It's always amazing to me that we have multiple intelligent (how intelligent is uncertain), social species right here on our own planet, and we spend such a tiny fraction of our energies as a society trying to commu…

Your comment and the parent really surprise me. Passing such moral judgements based on the diet of a species seems a bit 'youtubish'. Using the same logic one could argue that humpback whales are the real assholes since they protect those seals and sea lions so they can prey on those tiny, little penguins which are the cutest.

(Seals even rape them :'( http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141117-why-seals-have-sex-w...)

Re: Humpback whales around the globe are mysteriously rescuing animals from orcas

#27

Post by buserror »

gozur88 wrote: post #23
knutae wrote: post #18

Humpback whales apparently have to defend their juveniles against hunting orcas. It is surprising that they would defend other species in the same way, but it seems likely to be the same instinct that causes them to protect their own, rather than altruism. Then again, maybe you could make the same claim about humans. :-)

It doesn't necessarily have to be altruism to make sense. Less for orcas to eat --> fewer orcas --> fewer attacks on humpback calves.

Or perhaps it makes sense to practice the skill as much as they can, so they are better at it when it comes to defend their own young?

Re: Humpback whales around the globe are mysteriously rescuing animals from orcas

#28

Post by b6 »

mrob wrote: post #3

There's an interesting video of a humpback whale being freed from a net: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcXU7G6zhjU We don't know for sure if it really is showing appreciation at the end, but humpback whales are social animals so IMO it's plausible. It certainly makes a big effort at breaching despite being trapped for a long time and despite there being no other whales nearby. Why would it do that if it's not tryin…

Interesting! I don't know, of course, but it strikes me that it could just be pure happiness. After I give my dog a bath outside and let him off the leash, he tears around the yard.

Re: Humpback whales around the globe are mysteriously rescuing animals from orcas

#29

Post by buserror »

zipwitch wrote: post #11
transfire wrote: post #7

Everyone knows that Orcas are the assholes of the sea.

Only some of them. The transient orca are the ones who eat mammals and don't have large social groupings. The resident orca have larger (matriarchal) social groups and don't eat other mammals , just fish. It's always amazing to me that we have multiple intelligent (how intelligent is uncertain), social species right here on our own planet, and we spend such a tiny fraction of our energies as a society trying to commu…

Why would we communicate with them? I mean, it's not like we're trying very hard to communicate with every single human subgroup either. And some of them we definitely NOT want to communicate with.

Reverse being true; if I was a whale, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to get involve in that human business and become so bitter that I'd lose the drive to be altruist ;-)

Re: Humpback whales around the globe are mysteriously rescuing animals from orcas

#30

Post by csydas »

mrob wrote: post #3

There's an interesting video of a humpback whale being freed from a net: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcXU7G6zhjU We don't know for sure if it really is showing appreciation at the end, but humpback whales are social animals so IMO it's plausible. It certainly makes a big effort at breaching despite being trapped for a long time and despite there being no other whales nearby. Why would it do that if it's not tryin…

Not to be a wet blanket, but Wiki suggests a few other reasons that it might breach that might be in line with being stuck for some time in a dingy net.

Or maybe the whale was just having a lot of fun now that it could move.

Or maybe it's a really big thank you like you suggest :)

If it's either of the latter though, I do find that interesting behavior regardless.

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