When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All • Hacker News Board

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#161

Post by nneonneo » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:15 PM UTC

darkhorn wrote: post #153

It is their country, they can do whatever they want. I think USA should do whatever it wants too, like blocking Chinese tech companies in the USA.

The US doesn't need to - as the article indicates, most Chinese tech companies have no interest in operating outside of Asia. To give some concrete examples: WeChat (微信), which is entirely ubiquitous in China, has essentially zero market share in the US - parts of the app aren't even localized to English! Baidu is the biggest search engine in China, and it doesn't have an English version. Alibaba operates one of the world's largest online stores (like Amazon), but has no presence in the States. And so on.

Western tech companies want in on the Chinese market, but by and large, the reverse is not true.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#162

Post by danbruc » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:21 PM UTC

6stringmerc wrote: post #158

danbruc wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is of course theft, my point was that I assume the west is also taking whatever they can get so that it would be hypocritical to blame China for doing it.

Eh, that's kind of rationalizing away the threat posed by China's habitual targeting of US military tech, specifically in aviation. I'll believe China has corrected its dirty sourcing ways when they build their own reliable Mach 2 Fighter Jet from scratch without reading Lockheed's homework first.

Where is the difference to what the USA and USSR respectively Russia did and probably still do to each other? Or the USA allegedly still spying on Airbus? If everybody does it, why only blame China?

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#163

Post by inlandrookie » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:25 PM UTC

noisy_boy wrote: post #31

China is a peculiar case. It has embraced parts of capitalism that ensure market growth. The huge domestic market coupled with aggressive stealing of IP to create cheapest-in-the-world knock-offs have fuelled its exports. However, having this selective breed of capitalism has allowed its leadership to sidestep aspects of American capitalism e.g. influence of corporations on leaders. This means that companies don't ha…

This is another example of both American Narcissism plus insufficient understanding of Chinese business environment. Leaders are "human beings", which means they do business on behalf their own interest. Tobacco industry spend billions on lobbing/advertisement to want public believe "smoking is healthy". And listen, China is a whole different world at a complete different stage than USA, so why do u expect it should be like USA? Look out the window and you will see how many developing countries ruined because they were once obsessed with the so-called "American capitalism".

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#164

Post by duncan_bayne » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:30 PM UTC

erdevs wrote: post #28

sunstone wrote: post #7

The West and China are playing a global chess game and have been for some time. An impoverished China was not in the West's interests and so they agreed to buy all kinds of lowish tech Chinese made goods. In return most jurisdictions enforced a balance of trade with China, with the exception of the US. On their end China insisted on joint ventures and technology transfer to the extent Western companies would comply.…

It seems to me that China outplayed the West here by a wide margin. For some reason, the West has let China get away with extremely protectionist trade policies the likes of which no one else in the world would dare even attempt. I think this was a combination of fear that isolating China vs creating a high degree of economic interdependence could lead to war down the line, and a lack of control over Western companie…

> For some reason, the West has let China get away with extremely protectionist trade policies the likes of which no one else in the world would dare even attempt.

I always assumed that this was allowed because in turn, China gave American companies access to very, very cheap manufacturing labour.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#165

Post by narrator » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:31 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #159

narrator wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west's critical flaw is that it believes its own propaganda. The "Washington Consensus" believed that no country could develop or resist the temptations of the "superior" culture and understanding of the western financial system and industry. That the countries that they were moving into were hopeless without their intelligence and guidance and would quickly fall in line and become dependent and helpless without…

Talk about believing propaganda. You're falling for Chinese propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Broad Sustainable Building Group is basically one giant propaganda machine propped up by government loans. They've been talking about building the world's tallest building in only 90 days for years, but they recently dropped the idea because it was never a serious proposal . Buildings of this height need rigidity from huge…

>They've been talking about building the world's tallest building for years in only 90 days,

I didn't say they built the tallest building in the world. They built a 54 story buildings and five story buildings are certainly realistic.

>A US company could also put up a 40 story building in 2 weeks. If the government loaned them hundreds of millions of dollars, allowed them to ignore worker safety and environmental laws, and they ignored any long term maintenance considerations

The whole "they cheat" meme is part of every criticism of China. China actually makes stuff though. The funny part about IKEA and other western retailers opening in China is that they had a very hard time competing because the locals just copied theit designs and sold them cheaper down the street. Unlike other markets they operate in, the locals can make things at a competitive cost. If you don't actually make anything you can demand all this abstract perfection. Most of the products that Americans buy in stores are made in China, including the cell phone or computer you are reading this on.

>It wouldn't be profitable, just like it's not profitable China. And it wouldn't last 40 years, just like the buildings in China won't last 40 years. Sure the government gives out lots of money, but that's communist central planning in action. Seems to be working better than the McMansion bubble.

The Chinese are not an inherently superior civilization to the Americans, thus the Americans could do the same thing if they got their act together. We rely on dumb wall street money to allocate capital that chases whatever bubble is hip at the moment. China allocates capital via giving banks very specific lending instructions. Different systems, and they seem to have some advantages.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#166

Post by learc83 » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:33 PM UTC

mmanfrin wrote: post #151

learc83 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In it, one of the moral cruxes of the main story was that the crew needed 'Unity'. I saw this as a subtle shift from american 'Freedom'. Teamwork is a huge theme in countless Hollywood movies. A rag tag group of misfits who has to overcome their differences and learn to work together is a classic movie trope. I don't think this has anything do with trying to appeal to Chinese audiences. Less complex (and less overal…

Certainly there is teamwork in many films, but I feel in traditional films that teamwork is to work towards the common goal of 'freedom' (abstractly). In this Star Trek movie, it came down to a struggle of power vs (explicitly) "unity". I.e., bad guy was against the idea of Unity . So in American films, unity is used as a tool to the end goal of freedom, whereas in this film the struggle was towards the ultimate goal…

But that's one of the central themes of Star Trek. The Federation is explicitly about unity, not necessarily freedom. The Federation has been accessed of being an essentially communist government over the years.

The film was written by long time fan of the series, so one of the central themes of the series being highlighted in the film is unsurprising.

I sincerely doubt it has anything to do with China.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#167

Post by mywittyname » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:34 PM UTC

serge2k wrote: post #82

mywittyname wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the EU, China has the capability to build companies that could rival top US players. So it's unsurprising that China takes the uncompromising approach to foreign investment that they do. I'd love to see an American's reaction to a speech where Xi Jinping exclaims that he will ensure that all Americans start using Baidu as their search engine.

> I'd love to see an American's reaction to a speech where Xi Jinping exclaims that he will ensure that all Americans start using Baidu as their search engine. Why would anyone care?

Exactly.

I'm poking fun at Trump's nationalistic brouhaha concluding this article.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#168

Post by paulsutter » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:36 PM UTC

conanbatt wrote: post #96

erdevs wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that China outplayed the West here by a wide margin. For some reason, the West has let China get away with extremely protectionist trade policies the likes of which no one else in the world would dare even attempt. I think this was a combination of fear that isolating China vs creating a high degree of economic interdependence could lead to war down the line, and a lack of control over Western companie…

Why is it a problem if China develops a higher GDP than the US. Its not a problem for the people. It might be a problem to politicians that want to tell a story, but wishing china to do worse economically is truly backwards. If china comes out with better technology than the us, better products and services, cheaper and all that, the whole world gets better. If you dont believe that, then you must for the sake of con…

Why was this downvoted? It's a perfectly good question.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#169

Post by Retric » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:46 PM UTC

erdevs wrote: post #28

sunstone wrote: post #7

The West and China are playing a global chess game and have been for some time. An impoverished China was not in the West's interests and so they agreed to buy all kinds of lowish tech Chinese made goods. In return most jurisdictions enforced a balance of trade with China, with the exception of the US. On their end China insisted on joint ventures and technology transfer to the extent Western companies would comply.…

It seems to me that China outplayed the West here by a wide margin. For some reason, the West has let China get away with extremely protectionist trade policies the likes of which no one else in the world would dare even attempt. I think this was a combination of fear that isolating China vs creating a high degree of economic interdependence could lead to war down the line, and a lack of control over Western companie…

China exchanged trillions of goods at below market rates due to games with their exchange rate. This worked because the government does not care about it's populace and can extract a lot of value from an oppressed population. The populace benefited from increasing purchasing power though far less and far slower than most developing nations.

I would say the US and communist party members got a great deal and the Chinese population is better off though still being stepped on.

Re: When It Comes to China, Google’s Experience Still Says It All

#170

Post by borvo » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 8:47 PM UTC

xiaoma wrote: post #134

jazzyk wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Showing total GDP, without accounting for population is disingenuous. Don't you think that GDP per capita would be a better indicator, perhaps? http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?end=20...

China's outperformance of Europe is undeniable. In the chart you shared China was at barely 1/20 of Europe's level a generation ago and now is over 1/3. What will the comparison be in one more generation?

China's achievements are incredibly impressive, and will likely slow down as it gets closer to parity with Western standards of living. As for outperforming - rate of growth/catching up: sure - but not (yet) in most other regards.