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Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

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Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#81

Post by AnimalMuppet »

beachstartup wrote: post #43
badmadrad wrote: post #40

I have been in this situation before where I was flown out and the company low balled me on salary with 5% pay cut despite the cost of living be way higher. My time and energy was wasted. Trust me, companies do the same things all time to prospective employees. Even for a startup, flying someone out and putting them in a hotel for a night is the cost of doing business and the risk you take for finding the right candi…

if you didn't tell them how much you want to make, they're going to just guess. and it sounds like they guessed pretty well, if they came within 5% of what you currently make. amateur hour advice like "never be the first one to name a price" is nonsense. just tell them what you want and see if there's a fit, or not. it's how business gets done 99% of the time.

> just tell them what you want and see if there's a fit, or not.

What you want. Not what you're making now. For example, I don't currently have any toxic co-workers, but in a move, I take that risk. You've got to pay me enough more to make it worth my while to move.

I've decided that my answer to "How much are you making now?" will be "That's not a relevant number. The two relevant numbers are how much it would take for me to want to take the job, and how much you think I'm worth." (I've never actually tried it, since I've been on my current job for seven years, and I came up with that more recently.)

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#82

Post by Domenic_S »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #76
Domenic_S wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, it's this kind of negativity that gets people depressed about housing. Detached house (needs work) $359k https://www.redfin.com/CA/Gilroy/7270-Alexander-St-95020/hom... Condo in Morgan Hill @ $446k: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Morgan-Hill/112-La-Crosse-Dr-95037... Detached 3/2 SFH @ $500k https://www.redfin.com/CA/Gilroy/374-Walnut-Ln-95020/home/10... Nice townhouse @ $495k: https://www.redfin.com/CA/GILROY/7664-G…

I'm from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and the negativity is pretty warranted. $250k gets you a two-story house with an actual YARD there. Pittsburgh's tech scene is great now, too: Carnegie Mellon (CMU), Google Pittsburgh, Uber (self-driving car lab), Oculus Research, Duolingo, and a plethora of other startups. There's even seed investors here now! Even Paul Graham, a Pittsburgh native, is getting involved again. I ment…

You have to play the Bay Area real estate game - which is itself a gamble - but always begins with buying less than you eventually want. This is what gets frustrating talking RE with folks, especially younger ones -- of COURSE you can't buy Barbie's American Dream House in one of the most competitive real estate markets in the world, you're 30 and don't have rich parents.

I'm a huge fan of getting out of Silicon Valley. Cashing in on BigCo salary for a few years and then buying a house in TX/PA/wherever in cash is a totally valid game plan. I think it's hilarious that our industry essentially invented modern telecommuting yet uses it so rarely.

As an aside, $250k may get you a nice house in PA, but the salaries are correspondingly lower. If you can't get paid substantially more in the Bay Area there's really no good reason to be/stay/move here since everything's so expensive.

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#83

Post by Domenic_S »

codazoda wrote: post #78
Domenic_S wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The path forward is usually not comfortable. Up to you whether or not it's worth it (sounds like it's not). > I expected more of a conversation after I declined Guessing the recruiter felt the same way. "A call would have been nice" was the chance to have more of a conversation! It's where they say "what went wrong?" and you say "it's all great but I did the math and I need another $15k (or whatever) for the move to…

I'm a programmer and I would prefer to negotiate via email. All those counter points could have been raised in the response instead of a little fit.

This part is business, not programming.

My biggest salary negotiation was part phone, part email. But the relationship was collaborative, so it worked.

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#84

Post by buddapalm »

Domenic_S wrote: post #48
tomreece wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The offer was 20k more than my base salary already. Asking for even more seemed crazy to me. I have controversial opinions on how much money developers make already, probably stemming from my imposter syndrome. Asking for more money did not make me comfortable. If they had offered, I would have had to reconsider. I expected more of a conversation after I declined, but it didn't happen.

The path forward is usually not comfortable. Up to you whether or not it's worth it (sounds like it's not). > I expected more of a conversation after I declined Guessing the recruiter felt the same way. "A call would have been nice" was the chance to have more of a conversation! It's where they say "what went wrong?" and you say "it's all great but I did the math and I need another $15k (or whatever) for the move to…

This thread. Lesson is to be transparent while going through the process, so there's no surprises. And that all said, never feel guilty if it's ultimately the wrong decision for you. Hiring managers and recruiters are used to having to move on if a candidate falls through.

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#85

Post by Hydraulix989 »

Domenic_S wrote: post #82
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and the negativity is pretty warranted. $250k gets you a two-story house with an actual YARD there. Pittsburgh's tech scene is great now, too: Carnegie Mellon (CMU), Google Pittsburgh, Uber (self-driving car lab), Oculus Research, Duolingo, and a plethora of other startups. There's even seed investors here now! Even Paul Graham, a Pittsburgh native, is getting involved again. I ment…

You have to play the Bay Area real estate game - which is itself a gamble - but always begins with buying less than you eventually want. This is what gets frustrating talking RE with folks, especially younger ones -- of COURSE you can't buy Barbie's American Dream House in one of the most competitive real estate markets in the world, you're 30 and don't have rich parents. I'm a huge fan of getting out of Silicon Vall…

"of COURSE you can't buy Barbie's American Dream House in one of the most competitive real estate markets in the world"

It's not even that though, $1M now gets you what's called a "fixer-upper" in SF -- a euphemism which actually means a house with broken gas lines that you literally risk your life occupying.

It's also impossible to save money here for a future house in a cheaper city when the median rent is $4000/month.

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#86

Post by Domenic_S »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #85
Domenic_S wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to play the Bay Area real estate game - which is itself a gamble - but always begins with buying less than you eventually want. This is what gets frustrating talking RE with folks, especially younger ones -- of COURSE you can't buy Barbie's American Dream House in one of the most competitive real estate markets in the world, you're 30 and don't have rich parents. I'm a huge fan of getting out of Silicon Vall…

"of COURSE you can't buy Barbie's American Dream House in one of the most competitive real estate markets in the world" It's not even that though, $1M now gets you what's called a "fixer-upper" in SF -- a euphemism which actually means a house with broken gas lines that you literally risk your life occupying. It's also impossible to save money here for a future house in a cheaper city when the median rent is $4000/mo…

We're talking in circles now. Originally I said a person HAS to leave the "cool" areas of the Bay (SF proper being one of them) if they're looking to get ahead in the housing market. I don't think that point's been disproven here.
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