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Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

arstechnica.com

141–150 of 184 posts

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#141
post #131

Personal antecedent is that I never flossed for 18 years, and would always walk out of the dentist with a bleeding gum somewhere in my mouth, and my teeth would hurt drinking cold water, etc, but when I finally started flossing all those problems evaporated. Some mouths probably need it more than others, and it appears that mine is one of them. Is flossing the best option for inter-teeth cleaning? Maybe not. However,…

You floss after brushing? I always thought the reverse was the best practice. Of course... there has been zero science, so maybe the best is brush -> floss -> brush -> Listerine -> floss.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#142
post #25
post #12

From what I read and from personal experience it is a diet that has strongest effects on tooth health, not the the way to toothbrush or floss. For example, in Europe tooth health became much bigger problem after crusades when knights brought various dessert recipes from Lebanon and Syria.

This would be my guess too. I've never had a cavity in my life, which I'm sure is partially genetic, but I don't floss and brush only once a day in the morning. I haven't been to a dentist in ~6 years. My diet is very clean though -- no soda, candy, or really anything else high in sugar other than fruit. I eat a lot of raw vegetables too, which I think clean my teeth as I chew.

The few cavities that I have had were all extremely tiny and hardly visible to the eye. You won't really know on your own that you have a cavity until it's much more fully developed. At that point, getting it repaired is much more aggravating and a pain. I'd highly recommend getting to the dentist more than once every 6 years.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#143
This doesn't surprise me. If I had $10 for every experienced, certified specialist I saw until the age of 13 that said "The best thing for your condition is little-to-no activity, certainly not weight lifting!" I'd be able to pay for my legal steroid cycles for a good 10 years. The only thing that improved my quality of life was getting bigger, stronger, and tougher. That's why I don't look like one of their normal patients - because I refused to believe the counter-intuitive notion that weakness is a good thing biologically. FTR I don't disclose my condition but it's a physical one.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#144
post #131

Personal antecedent is that I never flossed for 18 years, and would always walk out of the dentist with a bleeding gum somewhere in my mouth, and my teeth would hurt drinking cold water, etc, but when I finally started flossing all those problems evaporated. Some mouths probably need it more than others, and it appears that mine is one of them. Is flossing the best option for inter-teeth cleaning? Maybe not. However,…

Same here. Going from no-floss to 1x WaterPik and 1x floss daily has radically lowered scraping, bleeding, pain, etc. during my regular checkups.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#145
post #131

Personal antecedent is that I never flossed for 18 years, and would always walk out of the dentist with a bleeding gum somewhere in my mouth, and my teeth would hurt drinking cold water, etc, but when I finally started flossing all those problems evaporated. Some mouths probably need it more than others, and it appears that mine is one of them. Is flossing the best option for inter-teeth cleaning? Maybe not. However,…

From my own experience, I would have to agree. I've never had braces so the gaps between my teeth vary between wide enough to fit the tip of my tongue to so tight that floss has a hard time getting in. Brushing can't handle those very tight spaces.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#146
post #98

Isn't it about time we got rid of the ridiculous "if we haven't researched it, we know nothing about it" fallacy? Research is strong evidence that points towards something. Lack of research doesn't mean complete lack of a-priori knowledge . If something is obviously good for you, then that's probably a good start for recommending it.

Your argument is a slippery slope for the acceptance of every kind of pseudoscience. How do we know something is 'obviously' good for you without research? NOTHING Is so cut and dry that you can make that statement. For example: organic food. Obviously, must be amazing for you. Got two great buzzwords in it: organic and food. Therefore, amazing for you. Does the research bear this out? Similarly, homeopathy, reiki, p…

Has anyone done the research on the health benefits of rubbing broken glass in your eyes twice a day? Somehow I doubt it. Would you say that we know nothing about it? Personally, I am quite happy to accept based purely on common sense and intuition that this is unlikely to be healthy.

Research is just another tool. It happens to be a really good one, and when research contradicts common sense and intuition, research usually wins. ("Usually" because it can be flawed, just like anything else.)

But in the absence of research, we can still do better than just saying "uh, I dunno" in many cases.

The alternative isn't reasoning based on buzzwords, it's based on thought and available evidence. No, that's far from perfect, but it's also not going to lead you into homeopathy, reiki, psychic surgery, or acupuncture. Flossing has a plausible mechanism of action, unlike any of your examples. If it turns out that this plausible mechanism of action doesn't actually have any long-term benefits, then that sucks, but it doesn't mean we should give up on thinking about anything that hasn't been researched.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#147
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's missing the point. And, as an aside, so are all the comments in this thread that are essentially "flossing works for me, so I'm going to keep doing it." The point of this article is not that people should stop flossing, or that it's bad for some reason. The point is that an entire industry of medical professionals were saying "floss because it reduces you risk of tooth decay and gum disease," when in f…

Dentists and dental hygienists look into tens of thousands of mouths over the courses of their careers. It's not difficult for them to see that patients who floss have far healthier smiles, in general. That said, they should get more studies done. You could also be a bad flosser, so even the study could be flawed.

Many chiropractors will also claim that they can directly observe the much lower incidence of cancer and heart disease in their patients, but that doesn't make it true.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#148
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything needs research. Flossing removes decompsosing food from between your teeth. Dentists understand that tooth decay and gum disease result from prolonged exposure to decomposing food. If doctors told me that putting out shirt fires reduces the risk of burning to death, I would trust them without verified research.

Completely anecdotal, my brother totally neglected his teeth when he was young. He just didn't bother brushing. His teeth were fine. I on the other hand have been a stickler for cleaning them, and they are totally knackered. Perhaps you can get a layer of magic plaque that protects the teeth. Who knows. Mine just get worse. They used to feel dirty without a brush. Now they feel horrible without a brush and floss. Som…

There is evidence that a particular species of bacteria causes decay and not everyone's mouth is dominated by that one - interesting stuff.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#149
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is a slippery slope for the acceptance of every kind of pseudoscience. How do we know something is 'obviously' good for you without research? NOTHING Is so cut and dry that you can make that statement. For example: organic food. Obviously, must be amazing for you. Got two great buzzwords in it: organic and food. Therefore, amazing for you. Does the research bear this out? Similarly, homeopathy, reiki, p…

Your argument is a slippery slope to discarding intuition :).

I don't think it's much of a slippery slope. I think most of us would (or at least should) agree, up front, that intuition isn't worth much. Even when investigating topics that are considered obvious.

"As for me, all I know is that I know nothing."

--Socrates

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#150
post #96
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's missing the point. And, as an aside, so are all the comments in this thread that are essentially "flossing works for me, so I'm going to keep doing it." The point of this article is not that people should stop flossing, or that it's bad for some reason. The point is that an entire industry of medical professionals were saying "floss because it reduces you risk of tooth decay and gum disease," when in f…

Not everything needs research. Flossing removes decompsosing food from between your teeth. Dentists understand that tooth decay and gum disease result from prolonged exposure to decomposing food. If doctors told me that putting out shirt fires reduces the risk of burning to death, I would trust them without verified research.

Dental caries result from certain species (S. mutans et al) of bacteria digesting sugars into acids that chemically erode bioapatite. If you destroy the bacteria, such as by using mouthwash, or prevent them from adhering to the teeth, such as by using xylitol, or deprive them of sustenance, such as by not eating sugars or simple carbohydrates, you won't get cavities, and you won't need to worry about flossing--to prevent cavities.

But cavities are not the only problem you can have in your mouth.

Food particles left in the mouth for long periods can cause an inflammatory response in the gums. This can lead to bone loss in the jaw. And that can cause your cavity-free teeth to fall out.

Flossing through the space between tooth and gum can potentially remove such particles, which would help prevent gum disease. But it might not be necessary to do it every day. Once a week, maybe? After eating jerky or popcorn?

I have no idea how often it is necessary to floss to achieve a statistically significant reduction in any of the oral diseases, or how much of a difference there may be between flossing twice a day and flossing once a month.

My dentist recommends flossing whenever I brush. While the recommendation to floss is probably well supported, I suspect that the frequency may be more based on psychology than anything else. They just attach it to the brushing habit. Perhaps it would be better to attach it to "whenever you trim your fingernails", or "whenever you shave your legs", even though those are not related to oral hygiene.

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