Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines • Hacker News Board

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#121

Post by lkrubner » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:25 PM UTC

Kinnard wrote: post #107

On a side note, most cavities/caries which get filled can be remineralized. That's particularly unfortunate because fillings need to be redone after two years on average, destroying even more of the natural tooth: http://www.wsj.com/articles/simple-dental-treatments-may-rev...

In 2011 I became aware of pain in my lower left chewing teeth. I had no health insurance, and no money to see a dentist. Over the course of two months, the pain got worse and worse. Finally, I decided I would rinse with Listerine, for long periods of time. I would take a swig of Listerine and hold it in my mouth for 30 minutes, spit it out and take another swig, and hold that in my mouth for another 30 minutes. I would do that all day, while I worked at my computer. My thought was that the bacteria could only do limited damage if my mouth was full of Listerine, so I kept Listerine in my mouth for several hours a day. Maybe I was right, or maybe the effect was psychosomatic, but after ten days of such treatment, the pain faded away.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#122

Post by merpnderp » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:25 PM UTC

dazc wrote: post #43

mrweasel wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For years my oral hygienist kept telling me to a get an electric toothbrush. When I finally got one, I didn't tell her, but I never hear the "get an electric tooth brush" again. It was the same with flossing. When I started flossing I didn't say anything, and she hasn't commented that I need to floss since.

Also worth noting that if you floss properly (maybe also use interdental sticks) the descaling routine becomes a lot more comfortable. For this reason alone it's worth doing.

I found this to be the same with a water pick. At first my gums bled and hurt, but after a few weeks I could turn the power to max and it feels like an awesome massage on my gums. I used to get some food stuck between my teeth, but now almost never do which I presume is due to much healthier gums.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#123

Post by badsock » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:25 PM UTC

ewzimm wrote: post #96

gjem97 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's missing the point. And, as an aside, so are all the comments in this thread that are essentially "flossing works for me, so I'm going to keep doing it." The point of this article is not that people should stop flossing, or that it's bad for some reason. The point is that an entire industry of medical professionals were saying "floss because it reduces you risk of tooth decay and gum disease," when in f…

Not everything needs research. Flossing removes decompsosing food from between your teeth. Dentists understand that tooth decay and gum disease result from prolonged exposure to decomposing food. If doctors told me that putting out shirt fires reduces the risk of burning to death, I would trust them without verified research.

Flossing can drive bacteria deeper into your gums, even causing them to be enter the bloodstream, which then (there's been some evidence) can have an influence on heart disease.

Public policy needs research. Human history is absolutely stacked with "obvious" truths turning out to be harmful falsehoods.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#124

Post by bzbarsky » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:26 PM UTC

skolos wrote: post #100

MicroBerto wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dentists and dental hygienists look into tens of thousands of mouths over the courses of their careers. It's not difficult for them to see that patients who floss have far healthier smiles, in general. That said, they should get more studies done. You could also be a bad flosser, so even the study could be flawed.

A => B does not mean !B => !A. In US (culturally): "Good dental hygiene" => "You floss". So dentists looking in your mouth can guess if you floss. However in Europe flossing is not as common and the link breaks. All dentists can say is if you take good care of your mouth, not if you floss or not.

> A => B does not mean !B => !A.

Uh... yes, it does. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraposition

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#125

Post by vonmoltke » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:27 PM UTC

A better discussion about the lack of evidence for flossing: https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/may-the-floss-be-with-y...

Basically, yes, flossing helps, but self-flossing really doesn't do anything more than just brushing daily.

I'm a little disappointed at the number of comments here along the lines of, "Well, it's obvious! Why do we need to study it?" That's a very unscientific attitude.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#126

Post by Kinnard » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:31 PM UTC

lkrubner wrote: post #121

Kinnard wrote: post #107

On a side note, most cavities/caries which get filled can be remineralized. That's particularly unfortunate because fillings need to be redone after two years on average, destroying even more of the natural tooth: http://www.wsj.com/articles/simple-dental-treatments-may-rev...

In 2011 I became aware of pain in my lower left chewing teeth. I had no health insurance, and no money to see a dentist. Over the course of two months, the pain got worse and worse. Finally, I decided I would rinse with Listerine, for long periods of time. I would take a swig of Listerine and hold it in my mouth for 30 minutes, spit it out and take another swig, and hold that in my mouth for another 30 minutes. I wou…

That's scary . . . did you ever end up getting it checked out?

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#127

Post by briHass » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:34 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #115

aaron695 wrote: post #108

This is the same bullshit around how fat and salt was really bad and no one could be bother changing that rule, because it might/is technically correct. Except everyone just ate sugar in mass quantities and we never moved forward (and probably moved backwards) We not only need to know if it works, we need studies to know how well so we can compare it to other methods people actually will implement.

I agree that most animal fats are healthy (ex. saturates) but I believe excess salt is still considered unhealthy even by current studies? Or am I mistaken on that? No disagreement on sugar either, definitely unhealthy in excess (in particularly when artificially added disproportionately to the other nutrition within the food).

Generally, unless you have a specific medical condition that warrants restricting salt (kidney disease, high blood pressure), there's no need to worry about normal doses of salt in the diet. In fact, too little salt can actually be very harmful.

This study [1] and the response from the CDC is very similar to the OP's article: despite research showing the recommendation is wrong, $BIG_AGENCY refuses to change its recommendation over fears of looking like boneheads.

[1] http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/20140402/cdc-salt-gui...

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#128

Post by ewzimm » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:35 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #112

ewzimm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything needs research. Flossing removes decompsosing food from between your teeth. Dentists understand that tooth decay and gum disease result from prolonged exposure to decomposing food. If doctors told me that putting out shirt fires reduces the risk of burning to death, I would trust them without verified research.

"Dentists understand that tooth decay and gum disease result from prolonged exposure to decomposing food." Does the type of food matter, carbs, protein, sugar? How soon should one floss after eating to avoid damage? Does flossing just before bed help? By how much? Should you floss after every meal? How much does it help? For all we know, sugary carbs that tend to get stuck between teeth do their damage in minutes or…

Those are some good points. Maybe there's an argument for using a water pick instead of flossing. But not everyone has access to one of those, and I wouldn't mistrust the entire dental profession because they tell people to clean their teeth without research.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#129

Post by cableshaft » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

lkrubner wrote: post #121

Kinnard wrote: post #107

On a side note, most cavities/caries which get filled can be remineralized. That's particularly unfortunate because fillings need to be redone after two years on average, destroying even more of the natural tooth: http://www.wsj.com/articles/simple-dental-treatments-may-rev...

In 2011 I became aware of pain in my lower left chewing teeth. I had no health insurance, and no money to see a dentist. Over the course of two months, the pain got worse and worse. Finally, I decided I would rinse with Listerine, for long periods of time. I would take a swig of Listerine and hold it in my mouth for 30 minutes, spit it out and take another swig, and hold that in my mouth for another 30 minutes. I wou…

Either that or the nerve died, so you stopped feeling pain. I went through that with a tooth (was also unemployed at the time and couldn't afford proper dental treatment for it), and eventually it had to get removed because it decayed so much. It used to hurt a lot but eventually it stopped hurting entirely, even as it cracked and chipped away slowly.

Re: Federal health expert drop flossing from health guidelines

#130

Post by amalag » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

epalmer wrote: post #53

flukus wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never flossed, I don't have gaps in my teeth to get the floss in. My first trip to the dentist in 25 years was a few weeks ago and my teeth were perfect except for a wisdom tooth and the damage it caused. So i'm kind of skeptical of the effect. Edit - I always wonder what kind of toothbrush other people use. I've always used electric ones so I wonder if that helps.

My gaps are small. My dentist says my teeth are tight. I have found that using Glide is the best floss. Even with that I have at times cut right through the floss with a particular pair of teeth. You might want to try Glide. I floss daily and sometimes twice a day. I keep floss at my desk at work and some mouthwash to kill some of germs that get stirred up. It is easy to fit that in when thinking through a problem. I…

I have to use a plastic floss needle sometimes, you thread the needle with floss in order to get floss between teeth when there is some food stuck in there.

Amazing that people are wondering what the "scientific" value in getting food particles out of your mouth.