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The Canadian Housing Boom Fueled by China’s Billionaires

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Re: The Canadian Housing Boom Fueled by China’s Billionaires

#111

Post by seanmcdirmid »

aminok wrote: post #107
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they renting them out? I've heard speculators buying housing and then just sitting on them are turning some Vancouver neighborhoods into host towns. Is there anywhere we can get occupancy numbers? Also, aren't Vancouver rents higher than Seattle?

The city of Vancouver did a very rigorous study, and found unoccupancy in the West Side, where much of the foreign investment has been going, at only 3 percent: http://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/city-releases-comprehensiv... Which is below the average for other major cities.

Eh. But aren't they biased? They were going through a lot of effort to show that there wasn't a bubble, or that the market wasn't being targeted by the Chinese.

Re: The Canadian Housing Boom Fueled by China’s Billionaires

#112

Post by thatfrenchguy »

tener wrote: post #96
linkregister wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fluff piece? Did we read the same article? It covered at length the issue of the young couple essentially trapped in Surrey, unable to get enough space to have a child. The author really went out of the way to emphasize the wealth of the investors, describing the buyer wanting a nonexistent car. The only remotely fluffy portion was describing the ecosystem of luxury services associated with the lavish spending. I thi…

The requirements this young couple have is mind boggling. The have 111 sq meters and think they cannot have a kid in this space? A lot of my friends live in ~40 sq meters and are happy to have their own place at all. With a kid, even two. Surely they would like to move to a bigger places, but this isn't a showstopper. They would love to have 111 sq meters place. Rising prices of properties is a real issue, but this p…

Where I'm from 111 sq meters condo is a "you have a really high income and three kids but will never be able to buy it" kind of thing.

Re: The Canadian Housing Boom Fueled by China’s Billionaires

#113

Post by bb101 »

GreaterFool wrote: post #48
stana wrote: post #44

As mentioned in this article, in most cases, father and the business do not move, only part of the family. Apart for spending in property and luxury items, looks like wealthy migration are passive participants in the economy - not starting businesses employing people, or paying much tax.

I wonder, what are wealthy people more likely to do: (1) but a hand made leather bag from a local hipster workshop (which I would do) or (2) buy a 10x more expensive Louis Vuitton bag which was probably made in a giant factory in China? And generalize to other goods/services. (1) at least supports local economy while (2) supports limited number of middle men. I'm not saying (2) is bad, but if it's only wealthy people…

Depends how recently the wealthy person came into money.

Nouveau: head to the nearest Louis Vuitton or Goyard boutique and choose the bag with the most logos.

Old money: handmade artisan bag with no labels.

Re: The Canadian Housing Boom Fueled by China’s Billionaires

#114

Post by Khaine »

a_bonobo wrote: post #78
Khaine wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except, the FIRB does not collect adequate data to truely monitor the acquisition of housing by non-Residents, and these regulations are easily to get around and are often flaunted.

Do you have any proof for either statement? All I could find is the 2014 report on the FIRB which said they would never initiate court proceedings; http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-27/foreign-buyer-rule-enf... I have no clue how much has changed there since then, and I don't assume anything will change. This still doesn't mean that any of my original points are wrong, the entire system is bad and IMHO Chinese forei…

Seriously?

The government held an inquiry into it, and this is the first key thing in the report:

"First, there is no accurate or timely data that tracks foreign investment in residential real estate. No-one really knows how much foreign investment there is in residential real estate, nor where that investment comes from."

See http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Hous... http://www.rba.gov.au/publications/submissions/housing-and-h... http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-n... http://theconversation.com/little-hard-data-in-the-hard-area...

Secondly 4 Corners did an investigation into it http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2015/10/12/4327525.ht... and https://www.crikey.com.au/2015/10/14/why-are-chinese-buyers-...

Re: The Canadian Housing Boom Fueled by China’s Billionaires

#115

Post by aminok »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #111
aminok wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The city of Vancouver did a very rigorous study, and found unoccupancy in the West Side, where much of the foreign investment has been going, at only 3 percent: http://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/city-releases-comprehensiv... Which is below the average for other major cities.

Eh. But aren't they biased? They were going through a lot of effort to show that there wasn't a bubble, or that the market wasn't being targeted by the Chinese.

I put the possibility of them massaging the data in some way at very remote. This study had a lot of eyeballs on it so risk of getting caught would be too high for them to entertain. Moreoever, the CoV grunts who do the actual work, like doing studies, seem both competent and of high integrity, and I don't think they'd be willing to betray their duty to the public and try to create a false impression of the unoccupancy rate.

Re: The Canadian Housing Boom Fueled by China’s Billionaires

#116

Post by seanmcdirmid »

aminok wrote: post #115
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh. But aren't they biased? They were going through a lot of effort to show that there wasn't a bubble, or that the market wasn't being targeted by the Chinese.

I put the possibility of them massaging the data in some way at very remote. This study had a lot of eyeballs on it so risk of getting caught would be too high for them to entertain. Moreoever, the CoV grunts who do the actual work, like doing studies, seem both competent and of high integrity, and I don't think they'd be willing to betray their duty to the public and try to create a false impression of the unoccupan…

They've been willfully ignorant to the numbers for some time. What is to say they aren't misinterpreting the data, fudging it, or ingoring factors like "more houses" or "more energy usage" while the number of people are dropping? This kind of thing goes on all the time here in Beijing, the only reliable way to determine vacancy is to count the lights that come on at night. All the other metrics, including energy consumption, are so gamed that they are useless.

Re: The Canadian Housing Boom Fueled by China’s Billionaires

#117

Post by Canada »

narrator wrote: post #110

All the trillions of dollars that got sent out the trade deficit since the 80s are finally making their way back to the developed economies. We can only export our inflation for so long.

Yeah. Nobody will talk about this. Trillions of dollars went to China in exchange for things purchased legally and voluntarily. Now, people throw around terms like "money laundering" as if the Chinese are a bad ass cartel that's been selling us cocaine all this time.

Re: The Canadian Housing Boom Fueled by China’s Billionaires

#118

Post by branchless »

ivoras wrote: post #84
Mikeb85 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately in Canada we've gone for easy money (real estate in Vancouver, oil in Alberta) before trying to establish actual industries. We'd rather just grab US and Chinese cash then vacation in Mexico than actually work.

> We'd rather just grab US and Chinese cash then vacation in Mexico than actually work. That's hardly unique to Canada. It's the default human state to prioritise short-term gains. See e.g. the phenomenon of obesity.

Former British colony with banking and enslaving land price shocker, page 4.

Re: The Canadian Housing Boom Fueled by China’s Billionaires

#119

Post by branchless »

celerystock wrote: post #104
Apocryphon wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps Montreal can do the same, if the city finds some way to sidestep the provincial language laws.

Unfortunately the software industry in Montreal has decided that developers are not valuable. Salaries are hilariously low compared to american counterparts.

Living costs are very low. And hours are good. Can you buy time? Do you want to live in a country with shameful inequality? Not me.

Re: The Canadian Housing Boom Fueled by China’s Billionaires

#120

Post by branchless »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #50
lpaone wrote: post #30

What isn't talked about in this article is the effect this is having on the other industries in the city aside from real estate. I believe that Vancouver has potential to be THE tech hub in Canada. Unfortunately, wages are very low compared to the cost of housing, and so the cost of living is super high. Combine that with extremely low vacancy rates, and it is very hard to attract talent from out of town. In fact, ma…

This lacks recognition. So many factors could come into play. E.g. The downstream effects of house prices has to hit entrepreneurship. Previously a bunch of people would be in a good place to take a couple years off to start a business mid-career. Now people have these huge mortgages where your ability to start a business is hampered by your ability to get a financial buffer to take this year or 2 off. And lets not f…

Exactly. Just last night talking to a guy in Montreal about to open a new eco cafe. He can take the risk because rents are lower here. Fuck the banks. Long live Henry George.
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