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Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

nytimes.com

611–620 of 785 posts

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I have a basic understanding of supply and demand. I even explained how supply of labor was being distorted in my post at both the higher and lower ends of the job market. I think the more appropriate question is how do you not know?

Ok, then what does a ditch digger deserve to be paid? The answer is a number.

The cumulative impact to low wage native workers is estimated between $99-118 Billion per year.

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/gborjas/publications/popular/... (page 2)

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I have a basic understanding of supply and demand. I even explained how supply of labor was being distorted in my post at both the higher and lower ends of the job market. I think the more appropriate question is how do you not know?

Ok, then what does a ditch digger deserve to be paid? The answer is a number.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigr...

Labor economists have concluded that undocumented workers have lowered the wages of U.S. adults without a high-school diploma — 25 million of them — by anywhere between 0.4 to 7.4 percent.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#613

I've read a few anecdotes here about fumbling the question. Let me tell you the magic words, "Sorry, that's confidential (it really is), I'm looking for $X."

My contract states I'm not allowed to disclose such information. And I'm pretty sure their contract will say the same.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#614
post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the Internet, it's real life too. If salaries are low across the board at $COMPANY it's an easy wedge for the management to use. "We couldn't give you more because then you would be making more than your coworkers. Do you feel like you really deserve more? You should be happy to have what you do already." If your coworkers are also too meek to ask for raises it's bad news for all the engineers. Pressure…

"We couldn't give you more because then you would be making more than your coworkers. Do you feel like you really deserve more? You should be happy to have what you do already." The answer is to call their bluff and tell them that yes, you do feel like you deserve more. You may or may not add that you feel like your coworkers also deserve more. You can't negotiate your coworkers' salary for them. You're only in a pos…

[deleted]

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, then what does a ditch digger deserve to be paid? The answer is a number.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigr... Labor economists have concluded that undocumented workers have lowered the wages of U.S. adults without a high-school diploma — 25 million of them — by anywhere between 0.4 to 7.4 percent.

[deleted]

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, then what does a ditch digger deserve to be paid? The answer is a number.

The cumulative impact to low wage native workers is estimated between $99-118 Billion per year. https://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/gborjas/publications/popular/... (page 2)

[deleted]

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#617
post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the linesmen who provide the power for your computers? What about the road workers who make it possible for you to get to work? What about the African miners who dig up the rare earths for your components to run your computer? What about the guys soldering all this crap together? I bet you'd say the road worker creates hardly any value, but in reality the economy just ceases to function without roads. Or s…

Supply/demand. There's a much larger supply of people capable of building roads vs. those capable of developing a system. And the monetary difference between an average road and a really great road is not nearly as much as the difference between an average system and a really great system. You're right about the value of teams being greater than an individual contributor, but the ability to work within a team is a va…

> the monetary difference between an average road and a really great road is not nearly as much as the difference between an average system and a really great system.

Pick another profession then. How about customer support? The difference between an average support person and a really great one can be millions of dollars of revenue. But they are paid peanuts because it's women's work, not like the manly engineering which obviously creates more value... nevermind that novice engineers often create negative value by creating liabilities that can cost the company millions, while still getting paid more than the highest paid customer support people.

The truth is, you are just assuming the people making the roads have nothing to offer in terms of outstanding value, because that's your preconceived notion. You already decided they were worth less than you, even though you never bothered to check. Never bothered to measure. Never bothered to ask.

If you really believed in your value, you wouldn't be afraid of a system where people are paid what they are worth to the company. Instead you hide behind "market rates" because market rates are good to you. But markets are flawed, we've seen it over and over. There's a lot of money in rigging markets, and the salary market is no exception.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#619

I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…

I think you are creating false equivalencies. There is a huge difference between the risk and commitment that an entrepreneur brings to a venture when compared to any other employee.

Now, if an employee (engineer or not) participates with similar exposure they definitely deserve more than a salary.

Maybe you haven't had a solid failure yet. I have. I lost everything once. And by that I mean everything: home, cars, furniture, even the last penny in my bank account. Everything.

My employees got laid off and found new jobs. Their lives continued (something I was happy to see, BTW). For me it was a nightmare that lasted a few years until I was able to get back on my feet (through entrepreneurship, again).

Everything in business in business isn't rosy. Businesses like Facebook that go from dorm to rocketship with hardly any struggle are pink unicorns. Most ventures have to slog it out and struggle, sometimes for years, before they succeed (and most fail). In this context, paying market rates --which means "only as much as you have to"-- is the fiduciary responsibility of the entrepreneur/CEO. Over-paying because of some unconventional criteria of fairness (that happens to be false) is simply irresponsible.

Because of this and other experiences I am very sensitive to this idea that everyone is equal (in terms of salaries, responsibility, exposure, risk, etc.). That's not the case at all.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, then what does a ditch digger deserve to be paid? The answer is a number.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigr... Labor economists have concluded that undocumented workers have lowered the wages of U.S. adults without a high-school diploma — 25 million of them — by anywhere between 0.4 to 7.4 percent.

...and increased the wages of otherwise poor Guatemalans, Mexicans, and their families by thousands of percent. Why exactly should I be opposed to this?
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