Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways • Hacker News Board

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#71

Post by dharma1 » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 8:33 PM UTC

fweespeech wrote: post #27

vkou wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real disaster isn't rising sealevels (except in Bangladesh). Homes can be rebuilt. Its just a question of money. The real disaster is agricultural collapse in the tropics and subtropics. Either way, it would be far cheaper to switch our energy production to renewables, then to geo-engineer on a planet scale. We aren't doing that in any meaningful way. Instead we pat ourselves on the back for reducing US coal ener…

> The real disaster isn't rising sealevels (except in Bangladesh). Homes can be rebuilt. Its just a question of money. The real disaster is agricultural collapse in the tropics and subtropics. A good chunk of arable land and aquifers will be affected by rising sea levels as well. Really, our only hope is somehow all that land that is too cold to farm now...becomes more practical to farm. :/

James Lovelock, the inventor of Electron Capture Detector, which he used to discover CFC's, and the person behind the Gaia theory, predicts that only Canada, Northern Europe and Siberia will be habitable in the later part of this century.

www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/james-lovelock-the-prophet-20071101

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#72

Post by rpgmaker » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 8:39 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #49

rpgmaker wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? Because we are all going to be there (we would have been there if we'd be as strict as Latin American countries are about their own immigration). Japan can lead the way for us and for others on how to deal with this issue (population decline). Why isn't immigration a valid solution to population decline? This seems like a classic paean to the old white country to me. Immigration in Latin America is actually no…

Try getting a job in Costa Rica or Panama as an illegal. You'll have to get an illegal job. But anyway, the response is more about Japan. The long term answer is not the importation of workers, but finding a solution to having a viable economy with a declining population and aging population. It's in our interest that they find real solutions to a problem we will all face, rather than stave off the issue a bit with l…

> The main problem wasn't US companies but rather a very backward uneducated population.

The US isn't full of racists but you clearly are racist. Can't say I'm surprised since I could smell it in your first comment.

It may surprise you but Latin America had its share of intellectual leaders, many of which had to flee their own countries because of the brutal dictatorships propped up by the US govt. The ones who didn't were simply "disappeared". It's very convenient that you only think of United Fruit as the only beneficiary of subservient local dictatorships, it betrays a lack of knowledge about how neocolonialism (or even neoliberalism) works. Either that or you just did a quick "banana republic" google search and completely ignore that the term can be used independently of the United Fruit case. Which, again, betrays an ignorance about the whole subject.

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#73

Post by mc32 » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 8:48 PM UTC

rpgmaker wrote: post #72

mc32 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try getting a job in Costa Rica or Panama as an illegal. You'll have to get an illegal job. But anyway, the response is more about Japan. The long term answer is not the importation of workers, but finding a solution to having a viable economy with a declining population and aging population. It's in our interest that they find real solutions to a problem we will all face, rather than stave off the issue a bit with l…

> The main problem wasn't US companies but rather a very backward uneducated population. The US isn't full of racists but you clearly are racist. Can't say I'm surprised since I could smell it in your first comment. It may surprise you but Latin America had its share of intellectual leaders, many of which had to flee their own countries because of the brutal dictatorships propped up by the US govt. The ones who didn'…

I understand Latin America has produced a number of intellectuals --granted, however the majority of their mestizo population during the time of united fruit etc, were not attending school past the 6th grade, if that. That's a lot of intellectual capital left on the table and contributed to weak economies. The stronger economies had some semblance of compulsory education beyond elementary school. Even today, in Mexico itself, you have indigenous people for whom Spanish is a second language and due to that suffer discrimination in their own country --and this repeats in many south American countries.

You forget most of their intellectuals come from their elite families, it's not like the average person there has much of a chance in the elite circles.

Pointing out the poor educational infrastructure as well as a culture which does not make it a priority is not being racist.

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#74

Post by rpgmaker » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 9:51 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #73

rpgmaker wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main problem wasn't US companies but rather a very backward uneducated population. The US isn't full of racists but you clearly are racist. Can't say I'm surprised since I could smell it in your first comment. It may surprise you but Latin America had its share of intellectual leaders, many of which had to flee their own countries because of the brutal dictatorships propped up by the US govt. The ones who didn'…

I understand Latin America has produced a number of intellectuals --granted, however the majority of their mestizo population during the time of united fruit etc, were not attending school past the 6th grade, if that. That's a lot of intellectual capital left on the table and contributed to weak economies. The stronger economies had some semblance of compulsory education beyond elementary school. Even today, in Mexic…

You're not just pointing out anything. You were excusing imperialism with a little bit of racism on the side. Both out of ignorance as usual.

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#75

Post by mc32 » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 9:57 PM UTC

rpgmaker wrote: post #74

mc32 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand Latin America has produced a number of intellectuals --granted, however the majority of their mestizo population during the time of united fruit etc, were not attending school past the 6th grade, if that. That's a lot of intellectual capital left on the table and contributed to weak economies. The stronger economies had some semblance of compulsory education beyond elementary school. Even today, in Mexic…

You're not just pointing out anything. You were excusing imperialism with a little bit of racism on the side. Both out of ignorance as usual.

No I'm not. You're the one ignoring the mistreatment of local populations by the minority creoles. Yes, there was what can be categorized in some sense imperialism, in some countries, but that was conflated with larger geopolitical issues of the cold war.

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#76

Post by kaybe » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 11:32 PM UTC

Diederich wrote: post #52

kaybe wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is one little positive thought: At least there won't be an ice age, which, according to the timeline, should happen soonish (on geological timescales). An ice age would be very problematic too, and we've averted that easily.

That's true enough. The key point, though, is that the cold would have come at a typical rate. Typical being extremely slow, by human standards. We would have had many generations to prepare for it. There is growing agreement that what we are facing is going to happen very quickly, even by human standards.

There is research that hints that a very quick onset might be possible. It's even be suggested that it can happen in months. [1] (I tried to find the corresponding paper but could only dig up a conference talk abstract.)

The studies I found all used lake sediments in Irish lakes, so it's somewhat local and not conclusive yet imho. Still, it seems to be a surprisingly fast change in the data. (I was surprised; I didn't know.)

Do you have a source for your point? It looks like a more extensive literature review is needed to answer this question since the answer is not on the surface. Or my google-fu is just weak today.

On the other hand I also found research stating that the next glacial period might be a few 10,000 years off, so there's that.

[1] https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427344-800-mini-ice...

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#77

Post by fweespeech » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 3:32 AM UTC

dharma1 wrote: post #71

fweespeech wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real disaster isn't rising sealevels (except in Bangladesh). Homes can be rebuilt. Its just a question of money. The real disaster is agricultural collapse in the tropics and subtropics. A good chunk of arable land and aquifers will be affected by rising sea levels as well. Really, our only hope is somehow all that land that is too cold to farm now...becomes more practical to farm. :/

James Lovelock, the inventor of Electron Capture Detector, which he used to discover CFC's, and the person behind the Gaia theory, predicts that only Canada, Northern Europe and Siberia will be habitable in the later part of this century. www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/james-lovelock-the-prophet-20071101

Yes but its more than just habitability. Soil condition/quality as well as availability of water, etc. is important for farming.

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#78

Post by Diederich » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 4:00 AM UTC

kaybe wrote: post #76

Diederich wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true enough. The key point, though, is that the cold would have come at a typical rate. Typical being extremely slow, by human standards. We would have had many generations to prepare for it. There is growing agreement that what we are facing is going to happen very quickly, even by human standards.

There is research that hints that a very quick onset might be possible. It's even be suggested that it can happen in months. [1] (I tried to find the corresponding paper but could only dig up a conference talk abstract.) The studies I found all used lake sediments in Irish lakes, so it's somewhat local and not conclusive yet imho. Still, it seems to be a surprisingly fast change in the data. (I was surprised; I didn'…

I over-stated it. Like you, I've run into a couple of mentions over the past half year, but I don't have them handy.

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#79

Post by hedgew » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 12:23 PM UTC

immist wrote: post #32

hedgew wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increased immigration from poor countries to rich countries will increase consumption and pollution. Third world aid has a similar problem. The more wealthy people become, the more they eat meat and pollute. Cases like Sweden where more than 90% of third world immigrants stay unemployed are likely the worst of all.

>Cases like Sweden where more than 90% of third world immigrants stay unemployed Do you have a source to back this claim?

The real numbers are probably somewhat worse. There's a Swedish government report that has the best numbers, but I couldn't find it within a reasonable time. Swedish employment rates for natives and first-world immigrants are good, though.

After one year, more than 99% are unemployed http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/162-000-kom-till-sverige-5...

More than half of the unemployed in Sweden are immigrants http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/nu-ar-fler-an-halften-av-d...

Re: Climate Change Is Hell on Alaska's Formerly Frozen Highways

#80

Post by teslaberry » Wed, Aug 03, 2016, 2:16 PM UTC

JustUhThought wrote: post #3

We are in for a shtt-storm. But go over to Bloomberg news, and they're wondering why the Japanese won't make the tough cultural sacrifices needed to increase immigration, to stave off stagnant GDP caused by declining population and the accompanying demographics. (I get the workers to non-workers issues in play. Even with that, I believe it is telling, which solutions are put forth. Increase immigration. Not, decrease…

right, so next week you will be talking about how the world is overcrowded and now you are saying japan is fucked because it doesn't have enough people.

dogmatic orthodoxy of apocalyptic ecotastrophism is an pseudo-intellectual psycho-emotional epidemic.