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Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

nytimes.com

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Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#471

Post by bitJericho »

tn13 wrote: post #435
dudul wrote: post #2

Excellent measure. I remember interviewing at a very large corpo (think one of the main phone carriers), their application process online required applicants to reveal their salaries for the past 10 years. And before making an offer, they were asking for a W2 to make sure you were currently making what you claimed. Needless to say, I laughed at their face and walked. I assume this law won't apply to questions like "h…

Excellent measure only if the world worked by laws passed. Clearly the job market in Mass is very competitive and current salary is something that is helping employers make a better decision. Outlawing it only means top employers will have to rely on proxies where as low-end employers will violate the law nevertheless. On the ground it only makes things worse for both employees and employers.

I love it when companies violate the law during the interview process so I know what companies to avoid.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#472

Post by seehafer »

Would love to hear the opinions of founders who hated this practice as employees now they're on the other side of the table.

Personally I've always had a strict salary/comp band in place for each position, but having never had a company with > 25 people, I wonder at what point that breaks down.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#473

Post by shanacarp »

First thought Finally! Jobs are worth what the market bears right then, not what they were previously worth, so why do employers want to ask such demeaning questions Second thought Boy, all of those recruiting/hr programs are going to need to be re-written to comply. A lot require you to say what you've been paid at every previous job. Since they are sold nationally, all of those HR departments will need that one field stripped out to now comply to MA law.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#474

Post by hellogoodbyeeee »

throwAway295 wrote: post #391

Here's a question I've wondered for a long time -- replies appreciated!: Is there any legal risk in lying about your current/past salary? I'm not talking ethically. That's a different discussion.

I have seen that some employers ask for documentation of past salary. I don't think you will have any legal ramifications. Only they might rescind their offer or later fire you if they find out you lied

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#475

Post by eon1 »

aianus wrote: post #454
learc83 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was really a shortage of engineers, then engineer salary would be very close to the value the engineer adds to the company, because the competition to hire would drive the price as high as it could possibly go. Salary is nowhere near close to the value an engineer adds to the company, so most likely there is no shortage. The shortage is a manufactured problem to justify an attempt to depress wages. >How do y…

> Salary is nowhere near close to the value an engineer adds to the company, so most likely there is no shortage. I think it is more likely that the marginal value added by an engineer to a company is much less than you think it is. If Google currently earns an average of ~$2m per engineer that does not imply that they will earn an additional $2m upon hiring another engineer. In fact I'm confident they could fire at…

..because the engineers have created things that the company can continue to profit off. They're not factory workers, they don't need to be there on the day-to-day to add that value, so it's a little disingenuous to suggest the impact would be seen "tomorrow". Still not having those engineers 6, 12, 24 months down the line might not look so happy, though.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#476

Post by eru »

bumbledraven wrote: post #464
matthewowen wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like my earlier comment has been misconstrued as "if your work generates $1MM in profit than it should be rewarded with $0.999MM in salary". That's not what I'm attempting to say at all. Assessing value is definitely more complex than that. Additionally, yeah, it's true, competitors might not be able to realize the same value in the same space. Competitive advantages exist. Spreads between value and salaries w…

The labor theory of value has been refuted. In a market economy, prices (including the price of labor, i.e. salaries) are set by supply and demand.

In the short term, yes. In the longer term competition and companies/people entering/leaving the market moves demand and supply closer to something that justified by costs of production and 'value' of product.

(Economists say demand and supply are elastic, I think.)

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#477

Post by eru »

adrusi wrote: post #366
matthewowen wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your answer also shows a common misunderstanding about economics, because it takes too narrow a focus. If there exist jobs that produce $1MM in value but that have a going rate of 200k, then there should be more of those jobs: either the company doing the work should expand, or it should have competitors. This will lead to increased competition to hire, which means higher wages. The increased number of jobs might gen…

If there exist jobs that produce $1MM in value but that have a going rate of 200k, then there should be more of those jobs This is true generally, but I think it doesn't apply in context. Tech has saturated the existing market, there is no demand to be satisfied for more tech. Of course, the industry will continue to grow, but only because the very nature of tech is to innovate. Growth in tech doesn't come from creat…

As long as not everyone has eg an iPhone, I see plenty of demand for tech left.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#478

Post by mistaken »

stygiansonic wrote: post #449
r0m4n0 wrote: post #416

I applied and soon after worked as an engineer for a large company that not only asked for my previous compensation but part of the application process involved my employer validating that I actually made what I told them. They worked with a third party to match my figures with W2 statements and/or pay stubs. It was really intrusive. Pay should equate to value, not some silly ladder climb

I'm sorry that you had to go through this. I agree that it's intrusive and really shouldn't be tolerated. A while ago, I was in the middle of the job interview process for a company. Having read some rudimentary background on salary negotiation, I was somewhat prepared for how to deflect the "how much are you making?" question. The next interview was a technical interview, so I wasn't too focused on this aspect of th…

The correct answer to "how much are you making?" is I guess "how much are you willing to pay?"

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#479

Post by eru »

nikatwork wrote: post #442
WalterBright wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put it in simpler terms, if an employee creates $100 in value but only costs $10, competitors will line up to outbid that $10 to poach that employee.

...except if all the competitors ask how much the employee was paid at their last gig, so bid $12. Price fixing is an actual thing, that's why we have labor laws. Also see: non-compete agreements.

If you get bitten by that, you are just a bad negotiator.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#480

Post by eru »

st3v3r wrote: post #411
cheald wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every employment position comes with some degree of risk exposure. But, the risk of "I might lose my job" is quite a lot less scary than "I might lose all my invested capital and/or be stuck with crippling debts after the company crumbles". Early-stage startup employees are given greater compensation packages than later-stage employees specifically because of the greater risk of going to work for an early-stage start…

"Every employment position comes with some degree of risk exposure. But, the risk of "I might lose my job" is quite a lot less scary than "I might lose all my invested capital and/or be stuck with crippling debts after the company crumbles". " That doesn't happen. The company has those debts. Not the individual. "Early-stage startup employees are given greater compensation packages than later-stage employees specific…

> That doesn't happen. The company has those debts. Not the individual.

Small company and startup loans are often secured by personal guarantees of the owners / founders.

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