Here's a question I've wondered for a long time -- replies appreciated!:
Is there any legal risk in lying about your current/past salary? I'm not talking ethically. That's a different discussion.
Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
391–400 of 785 posts
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#392Feel free to tell them what you make just add 15-40% to that number. This has worked well for me. Employers seem happy as well. Example: Assuming your current salary is X. "So I currently make (X * 1.20), but in order to make the jump I need at least (X * 1.40)." That way they get to feel out immediately whether they can afford you, you get the salary that would motivate you, and no one is wasting time in the hiring…
> Assuming your current salary is X. "So I currently make (X * 1.20), but in order to make the jump I need at least (X * 1.40)." Regardless of whether or not the employer actually does due diligence, why put yourself at risk by lying? The second half of that statement is the only part that matters. If you simply say "I need (X * 1.40) to make the jump", you'll accomplish your goal without putting yourself at risk by…
What is the risk? Honest question. Is there a legal risk in this?
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#393I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…
I am a developer, so I am all for higher developer salaries, but your posts shows a common misunderstanding about economics. The value someone creates has nothing to do with their salary. Their salary is dictated by how many people need to hire developers and how many developers exist to fill those jobs or in simple terms, supply and demand. I might create millions of dollars in value with my code, but there might be…
CEOs and top executives are highly replaceable too (they sure change companies a lot), and yet they command massive salaries. What happened to the laws of supply and demand there? Why do CEOs have to die or retire before the board decides to replace them with someone more competent? How was Steve Ballmer able to stay in charge at Microsoft for so long?? I remember the day Ballmer announced his resignation, MSFT stock went up by like 10%! So the market definitely wanted him out!
The main difference is that executives have leverage (and they have friends in high places) while average employees have almost no leverage.
It's the government's job to make sure that employees have some sort of leverage over their employers.
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#394I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…
> Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the average worker does in the country but ridiculously to what they would look like if engineers were allowed to capture a greater (that is a >0.01%) percentage of the added value they CREATE.* As…
You could run a business and pay everyone above market rate. If you are good could help 10 or even 100 people.
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#395I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…
If I have learnt one thing, it's that creation of wealth, no, rephrase that, the creation of a business that can extract profit from the creation of wealth, is the 80% of the total effort.
I happily produce code that does a job. But doubling my skills with nested loops, debuggers etc will not produce double profits. This is because in most cases competent coding produces good enough code.
Increasing my skills with architectural design, improving my processes mgmt (releases, testing) will likely increase profits because those are often left unfixed in many companies.
Then improving my ability to understand what the ultimate paying user needs will have much much more impact because I will build the right thing
And finally improving my ability to co-ordinate with others (a market?) will magnify my efforts again.
I suspect that the creation of a business that allows and encourages all the above (call it marketing ?) is the key to extracting wealth.
Not sure where that goes but it meant something as I types
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#396I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…
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Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#397I've never understood why this question is such a big deal for people. When asked what you made at your last job, you should just give the number you would like to make at this new job.
Some people place an intrinsic value on honesty, and dislike being forced into situations where the advantage is given to brazen liars. I upvoted you since I think this is a topic worth discussing, and probably many others share your view, but I personally find your lack of compunction reprehensible.
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#398I hate this question. I frequently dodge or outright deny answering it. I won't lie about it, I just say, no you don't get that information. To dodge this question I say the following: "I'm looking for compensation in the range of xxxx to XXXX. This obviously depends on the benefits packages, for an awesome benefits package you may be closer to xxxx, if your benefits are bad then you'll need to be closer to XXXX." If…
I've followed this advice in the past with mixed results. Some companies do a great job of either respecting this or not asking in the first place. When I interviewed at Uber (a little more than a year back), the recruiter was super persistent. I told them "I understand why you're interested, but it's my personal preference at the advice of personal mentors, not to disclose that information. If we both like each othe…
I have experienced this as well.
Quick story. Before I took this advice, I made the mistake of telling a recruiter my salary, and then the recruiter said, yeah I'm not going to give you a 20K raise. The guys on that team were great and the compensation was actually viable, but it was not a good fit overall.
I think any negotiation where you want to walk away with the best deal you have to be willing to let a job go. It's when you want something so bad that you start to loose perspective and take a really bad deal. I say this from personal experience. When I have wanted something really bad I negotiate poorly, but when I come at it from a take it or leave it position I am almost always more happy with the result. It's really hard advice to follow when you really need/want a job especially if it's a big name like Uber.
This advice is also VERY dependent on you being able to negotiate. If the market is down and you can't find a job, you may end up in the 5th interview you don't get because you refused to disclose and guess what? This tactic isn't working. Adapt to the market, but use any leverage you have to secure the best position you can for yourself at a place you will be happy.
I've gone through 4 employers in 4.5 years and I have loved 2 of the last 4. Those were the ones I took because I had time to decide and really vetted them out. I had the power in the negotiations and I stacked the deck in my favor. They were also the biggest pay bumps I'd received.
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am a developer, so I am all for higher developer salaries, but your posts shows a common misunderstanding about economics. The value someone creates has nothing to do with their salary. Their salary is dictated by how many people need to hire developers and how many developers exist to fill those jobs or in simple terms, supply and demand. I might create millions of dollars in value with my code, but there might be…
Your answer also shows a common misunderstanding about economics, because it takes too narrow a focus. If there exist jobs that produce $1MM in value but that have a going rate of 200k, then there should be more of those jobs: either the company doing the work should expand, or it should have competitors. This will lead to increased competition to hire, which means higher wages. The increased number of jobs might gen…
You appear to be ignoring everything else that goes into making a company besides labor. There isn't perfect competition in the real world. Companies don't all have the same resources, customer base, or opportunities.
For example, a person doing the exact same job at Facebook is going to provide more value than a person doing the exact same job at Twitter which is going to provide more value than a person doing the exact same job at a brand new startup. The Facebook employee might be producing $1m and the Twitter employee might be producing $200k. In that instance Twitter can't pay more than $200k and Facebook has no incentive to offer more than $200k.
Or maybe a more concrete example, if I am the head of design for Ford, the value I produce for Ford is always going to be more than I can provide by myself because I have no way to put my skill set to use in a new company. I don't have access to the supply chains Ford does. I don't have access to the factories that Ford does. I don't have access to the labor market that Ford does. If I wanted to actually compete with them, it would require billions in funding behind me like Tesla.
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Having a law that says you can't ask someone something seems to violate Freedom of Speech and it sets a dangerous precedent." Like your age, religion, sexual orientation, or if you're planning on getting pregnant?
I'm fine with the not discriminating part, it's the asking part I'm concerned with. It seems like censorship and going against Freedom of Speech to me. A better law would be that employers may not discriminate or refuse to hire someone if they refuse to tell them their previous salary. Specificity is key, just saying you can't ask feels too overreaching. The intent is to prevent discrimination, not speech.
>A better law would be that employers may not discriminate or refuse to hire someone if they refuse to tell them their previous salary.
To be honest, this does not seem like a better law at all. "You can ask about this information, but you can't use it" just means they'll come up with some other excuse for doing whatever they wanted to do all along. The problem isn't the "speech" itself, it's the demanding of information. Is it any different than saying a company can't ask about an applicant's religion?