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Fentanyl, a stealth killer

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Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#61

Post by MichaelGG »

milesf wrote: post #21

Sad that the message of this piece will likely be discounted and discredited. It amazes me the blasé attitudes towards drugs in the tech world. Hearing even high-profile tech leaders extoll the 'virtues' of getting high while ignoring the huge toll it takes on individuals and their families seems selfish to me.

The issue here was not caused by the actual substance. It was caused to due to terrible social and legal attitudes that encourage mislabeled medicines to be sold.

If anything else in our society was mislabeled by a factor of 50, there'd be outrage over the vendor, regulators, etc. But with drugs, it's always "user error".

Opiates are extremely well tolerated, with basically no upper bound on use. They are incredibly cheap, black market aside. There's probably a fair amount of libertarian-leaning people here that see the harm as caused by things other than drugs.

The "toll" it takes on people is almost 100% caused by the legal status. Hence why millions of people in America alone enjoy prescribed opiate usage without dying or having their life spin out of control.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#62

Post by dopamean »

brainfire wrote: post #53
hristov wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate to break it to you but your dealer does not give a fuck about your health. It is extremely difficult for the police to find the dealer of a dead person, and then very difficult to prove the elements needed for a murder charge. The police do not even try to find dealers of drug deaths, unless the victim is a celebrity. Furthermore, every heroin dealer knows that each of their clients is likely to go into a downwa…

I don't know where you're from, but my personal experience in my area (Maryland, USA) is that everything in your post is incorrect.

I'm from New York and now living in Austin, TX. I'll add that from my experience I agree that what he said was incorrect.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#63

Post by MichaelGG »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #42
onetwotree wrote: post #14

The mention of Fentanyl here is pure clickbait. Fentanyl is pretty well known amongst opiate addicts (and has been for a while). Everyone knows it's dangerous, including dealers, who like to avoid killing their customers and catching murder charges, believe it or not. Aside from that and a bit of gateway drug BS towards the beginning, this is a solid and somewhat moving, if long, account of the standard Heroin story,…

The mention of Fentanyl here is pure clickbait. Huh? That's the exact drug that killed the person in the story. It's made quite clear: Lucas County chief toxicologist Robert Forney and his staff meticulously screened DJ’s blood for drugs. Forney’s team didn’t find any heroin. What they did discover was a lethal dose of fentanyl.

It's not a secret nor hidden. It's well known and something people want to avoid. Users don't intentionally take a dose dozens of times higher than helpful.

Blaming it on fentanyl is a red herring. The real issue is mislabeling. If people sold heroin instead of codeine or Tylenol, we'd see the same problem.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#64

Post by rhizome »

oxide wrote: post #40
pizza wrote: post #3

Just because fentanyl has a shit therapeutic index doesn't mean it has a high body count (it gets used just fine even in tandem with other depressants in clinical circumstances...) - I would say the problem is more in the hands of the tough-on-crime lawmakers who seem to lack, at least in my neck of the woods, remorse. Also, look up sufentanil, and once you feel you're ready, carfentanil.. Also, yes, yes, fentanyl is…

Also, consider the tried and true method of overdosing: taking your usual dose after a break in use. someone addicted to a certain amount of heroin per day who stops using (money, access, etc) will come back to heroin with a much lower tolerance than before. if they are sold fentanyl unknowingly, using a familiar amount can be a death sentence. if they are sold heroin cut with fentanyl, it could result in death as we…

As I read somewhere years if not decades ago, "opiates are only a problem when you can't get them or they're too strong."

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#65

Post by d0mine »

shams93 wrote: post #27
loverofcode wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hard to get true data, when the only supposedly creditable source (CDC), mixes its data to include all prescription drugs including SSRI's and illicit fentanyl from china. Opioids can be used in VERY high doses as a person becomes more dependent. What is clear is that people are use to heroin and then take the higher dose without knowing and OD. This is the current trend. It is cheaper to get the Fent from Ch t…

You could take a look at the results in Portugal: https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decr...

The "Drug-induced deaths" plot from the link is very telling.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#66

Post by MichaelGG »

downandout wrote: post #45

Opiate addiction is a serious problem that affects people from all walks of life. My mother has had rheumatoid arthritis for decades. She was prescribed Fentanyl patches for the pain at one point, but the strength was too high. One day she wound up passing out in her kitchen after applying a patch. After that she stuck the patches in a drawer, intending for them to never to be used again. She was fine after this inci…

If someone was suffering from pain and couldn't even buy Ibuprofen due to an oppressive government and shitty societal view, one might not be surprised if they steal to get life-changing medicine.

The fact a "normal" person would rob an older woman for an essential medicine should reflect more on the society than the patient.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#67

Post by imaginenore »

frandroid wrote: post #49
imaginenore wrote: post #38

It probably will sound cruel, but this is natural selection at work. We can't babysit adults. If someone wants to smoke or drink alcohol, we accept it, but when someone takes drugs, people start losing their minds, even though alcohol/cigarettes are worse than many recreational drugs. If someone wants to ruin their health, but experience something unusual, let them. The dangers are generally known.

Drug addiction is a mental health disease. We don't tell depressed people that this is just natural selection at work, "just shake it out". We get people treated with the right medication. A huge amount of drug addicts suffer from untreated psychological trauma, particularly childhood trauma. http://drgabormate.com/book/in-the-realm-of-hungry-ghosts/

Disease assumes it's something out of your control. Nobody decides to get cancer or get depressed. Taking drugs, especially starting to, is 100% up to you.

People need to learn about the consequences of their actions, and take some responsibility, instead of blaming it on the seller. It's like blaming the knife manufacturers for the stabbing victims.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#68

Post by rhizome »

hristov wrote: post #22
onetwotree wrote: post #14

The mention of Fentanyl here is pure clickbait. Fentanyl is pretty well known amongst opiate addicts (and has been for a while). Everyone knows it's dangerous, including dealers, who like to avoid killing their customers and catching murder charges, believe it or not. Aside from that and a bit of gateway drug BS towards the beginning, this is a solid and somewhat moving, if long, account of the standard Heroin story,…

Hate to break it to you but your dealer does not give a fuck about your health. It is extremely difficult for the police to find the dealer of a dead person, and then very difficult to prove the elements needed for a murder charge. The police do not even try to find dealers of drug deaths, unless the victim is a celebrity. Furthermore, every heroin dealer knows that each of their clients is likely to go into a downwa…

While it isn't yet the law everywhere in the US, it's not just celebrities whose dealers get charged with murder for supplying drugs that kill via overdose.[1]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/her-fiance-gave-her-...

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#69

Post by dragonwriter »

MichaelGG wrote: post #55
fmihaila wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember ever hearing a 'high-profile tech leader' extoll the virtues of getting high on opiates. Yes, Steve Jobs talked about his experience with LSD in positive terms, but LSD is as similar to fentanyl as Advil is to Viagra or alcohol is to coffee. They really have nothing in common other than being labeled 'drugs', which at this point is a term just as empty of meaning as 'chemicals'.

FWIW Advil and other OTC painkillers (NSAIDs) cause almost as many deaths as opiates. If opiates were readily legally available in proper dosages and cheap prices, NSAIDs would almost certainly pass them in harm.

> FWIW Advil and other OTC painkillers (NSAIDs) cause almost as many deaths as opiates.

Maybe, maybe not. The basis on which that claim has usually been made has been discredited, but there is a dearth of good data on which to make a claim either way. [0]

[0] http://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/treatments/pharmacolo...

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#70

Post by loverofcode »

shams93 wrote: post #27
loverofcode wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hard to get true data, when the only supposedly creditable source (CDC), mixes its data to include all prescription drugs including SSRI's and illicit fentanyl from china. Opioids can be used in VERY high doses as a person becomes more dependent. What is clear is that people are use to heroin and then take the higher dose without knowing and OD. This is the current trend. It is cheaper to get the Fent from Ch t…

You could take a look at the results in Portugal: https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decr...

wow. very good info. saved link.
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